The Rock N Roll Hall of Fame (and bands that make Mr. Lonesome pee himself)

Mr. Lonesome:

This year, Guns N’ Roses will be inducted into the Rock ‘N’ Roll Hall of Fame.

Now, I am pretty confident we all have a pretty cynical view towards the HOF, and how/who they choose. But it made me think. Terrell Davis is a constant topic of discussion in football circles regarding his HOF credentials: namely, did he have enough great seasons to get in.

I love G’N’R, but (HOF aside) does their body of work make them a great band? They have a brilliant debut record, a good EP that’s half live covers and half acoustic tunes, the Use Your Illusions mess that should have been consolidated into one record, another release of pretty mediocre covers, and the 50 years in the making Chinese Democracy that’s more or less an Axl solo album, seeing as he’s the only original member on it.

So my question: how does the body of work define a band’s legacy? Inversely from G’N’R, you have the Stones: genius until 1973 or so, and honestly pretty ridiculous in the 30 years since (the single “Miss You” notwithstanding!).

Mr. On’ry:

I’m going to start this with I think the Rock N’ Roll Hall of Fame is a joke.  There are bands in there that are completely undeserving and bands that have yet to get in that should be.  Not to mention they are trying to quantify something that is completely opinion based.  I may think a band like The Who are completely overrated but you have millions of people who think they are gods.  Music is the most subjective thing in the entire world.  I don’t even know what their criteria is to get in but I can’t imagine it’s this scientific process so much as it’s a bunch of self important music journalists sitting around discussing the merits of artists.  Not to mention, what is “rock n roll” anyway?  Do pop artists like Prince and Madonna belong in the same conversation as say Led Zeppelin or Lynyrd Skynyrd or even Fleetwood Mac?  It’s a mess of a joke.    

Now with that said I think you summed up GNR pretty well.  I happen to love the debut record, as you know. I just think it’s great balls out rock n roll.  Lies was o.k.  Use Your Illusion I/II  had its moments but for the most part had so much filler they weren’t worth owning and everything else after that is unlistenable garbage.  So really how does one classic album justify a band getting into the HOF?  Is it because they sold a lot of records regardless of the quality?  Probably.  Which leads me to my original point that this whole HOF process is a joke.    

Mr. Mean:

I hate the HOF more than I hate GNR. That said, I think Appetite For Destruction’s impact on rocknroll and its sales figures more than qualifies them for the HOF. It’s going to be one of those albums that will never go out of print and will constantly sell a few hundred thousand in the US each year. But the dilemma is the fact that, yes, that is the only record they made that would make them HOF worthy. The Illusion records sold a ton, but are not huge sellers today like Appetite. GNR Lies probably still sells somewhat because of “Patience”. No one cares about The Spaghetti Incident and Chinese Democracy will be out of print within the next few years because so many of them will litter the used marketplace that there will be no reason for Universal to keep repressing the album. I’m not a fan of them, but I do understand their relevance in the history of rocknroll. But, I get a bit pissed at this HOF crap because you have bands like Rush (yes, I said it) who get overlooked year in and year out. Don’t tell me Rush’s impact on rocknroll and their longevity is second rate to GNR. They have one of the most rabid fan bases and still sell out large arenas and stadiums while a lot of their peers are playing county fairs and smaller venues. The thing about the HOF is that, yes, it seems to be a popularity contest. So, if that is true, Rush should be in because of their massive popularity. I think they should be in because they have made countless classic albums and their impact/longevity is rivaled by few bands in history.

The Stones. Of course, you would bring them up. You want a fight. They were genius until 1975, moron, and they made some pretty ridiculous records, like you said, the past 30 or so years. However, they have been a pretty damn good singles band the last 30 years. “Miss You”, “Beast of Burden”, “Undercover of the Night”, “Emotional Rescue”, “Start Me Up”, etc. are pretty good songs, despite the fact they are not “classic” Stones. I’d say between 1975 and 1984, they still made some great singles. After that, I agree, they are really horrible. There’s no reason why anyone with half an ear for listening to music would discount those other songs if they even remotely like the Rolling Stones. You both are complete and utter idiots for thinking otherwise.

Mr. On’ry:

You are probably both going to poop your pants when you read this:  I agree with you that Rush are one of the bands that have been criminally overlooked for the HOF.  They made albums that people love, they’ve sold out arenas, they have a very distinct and recognizable sound that has influenced countless other prog rock bands through the years, so as much as I hate them I can’t deny that. 

Dude you know I love, love, love the Stones right up through It’s Only Rock N Roll (1974) but most of those singles you listed are crap.  Beast of Burden?!?  Seriously?!?  I want to punch whatever device vomits forth that song every time it comes on.  Horrid.  Just horrid.    

Mr. Lonesome:

Obviously, I whole-heartedly agree on Rush. Their influence on other musicians is boundless, they’ve made classic albums, they still sell out arenas, and their record sales are insanely better than a prog band’s should be. The HOF is notorious for disliking prog bands, but they did recently put Genesis in. So maybe there is hope.  But the cool thing about Rush is they could really care less if they get in or not.

I appreciate, Mr Mean, that you see the impact Appetite has had. But that’s the fun thing about this topic: is one album enough to consider a band an all-time great. I happen to think it is, because there are so many variables that can affect a band’s legacy (i.e. death of a prominent member). I really think G’N’R could have been one of the greats if they could have been consistent. The Illusion records really made them a weird band. Some of those songs are nothing at all like Appetite. I’m all for experimentation, but why does something like “My World” exist? They tried to be too grandiose too soon.

And I agree on “Beast of Burden” – more boring than Mazzy Star.

Mr. Mean:

Admitting Rush’s relevance is the first step. Next, you’ll profess your love of “By-Tor & The Snow Dog” or “YYZ”. It’s good.

Up yours. “Beast of Burden” is a great song. My favorite single after their classic period is “Undercover of the Night”. That song kills. The lyrics are nasty, the beat is hot. Criminally underrated.

Tell us in the comments:  Yes or No?

 Mr. On’ry:

No, no, that’s not going to happen anytime soon.  I’ve always told you two dolts that just because I don’t like a band – Rush, The Clash, REM – doesn’t mean I’m going to automatically deny their place in rock history.  I know the difference between liking a band and a bands influence.

And there you go bringing up Mazzy Star again.  You know what I think?  I think your ability to not recognize good music if it bit you on the bum is boring.  How’s that grab you?  Ha!

Mr. Lonesome:

Curious, are you a Sex Pistols fan?

Listen, if you get Hope Sandoval to come to my house and serenade me, maybe she’s wearing a sheer dress or something, light blue, then I PROMISE to give Mazzy Star another chance.

Mr. Mean:

I can’t even comment on your obvious stupidity and lack of taste when it comes to his hatred of Mazzy Star. Your obvious stupidity and lack of taste speaks for itself.

I’m willing to bet On’ry is not a big Pistols fan. I like them, but they are totally not even close to being the best punk band of that era. Buzzcocks are #1 for me.

Mr. Lonesome:

I don’t hate Mazzy Star. I find them boring. Big difference.

You, however, I pretty much hate.

Mr. On’ry:

Either way you’re an idiot. 

No, I’m not a Sex Pistols fan.  To me they were only o.k. musically but they basically were punk rock’s version of a boy band and I can’t get behind that.  Too many bands from that era did it better and more genuine for me to waste my time on the Sex Pistols.   

Mr. Lonesome:

Ok, here’s the chance for you both to sell me on Mazzy Star. Why do you like them, why do you think I would?

Exactly, put together by Puppetmaster McClaren to sing punk versions of “Bye, Bye, Bye” – lame. I am thankful you don’t prefer them to the Clash.

Mr. On’ry:

I’m not going to try and “sell” you on any bands.  Ever.  It’s not my job to force you to like certain bands.  You’ve listened to them?  You’ve given them a fair shake?  That’s all I can ask.  I’m fine with it…just like you need to be fine with me thinking you’re a couple fries short of a Happy Meal for not liking them. 

Mr. Lonesome:

I prefer a band like Elysian Fields. Jennifer Charles has a killer smoky voice, and their music is very interesting.

Mr. On’ry:

She does have a great voice.  It just gets dirty at times.  I’m o.k. with that. 

This makes sense to me.  I feel like Elysian Fields has a more accessible sound for most people because they mix it up a little more as opposed to the darker, shoegaze type stuff that Mazzy Star does. 

Mr. Mean:

Don’t know Elysian Fields. Tell me something I should listen to. That band name is horrible though. Are they Greek or something?

Where do you guys rate Buzzcocks? To me, they were the next Kinks. Great, poppy, loud 2-3 minute songs about love and kitschy things. Every album they did for UA in the 70s was genius and every single/b-side was just amazing. Their body of work in the first wave of punk is rivaled by no one.

Mr. On’ry:

Start with an album called Queen of the Meadow.  I think you would dig that one the most.

Love The Buzzcocks.  Easily one of the most underrated bands ever in my book.  You never hear them mentioned in discussions about music coming out of the UK in that era.  It’s all The Clash and The Sex Pistols…which is probably why I dislike both bands. 

Mr. Lonesome:

I love Bleed the Cedar – I thnk you would actually dig them. They are a NYC band if I’m not mistaken.

Not a shocker, but I’m not that familiar with the Buzzcocks. Punk generally isnt in my forte, unless it’s Glen Danzig singing about comic books.

Mr. On’ry:

We’ve had this conversation several times about you and punk and it still blows me away how you’ve basically ignored an entire subgenre of music that has put forth some absolutely killer music.

Mr. Mean:

 I wonder why we bother with you at all.

BTW, Bleed The Cedar? That is hands down one of the dumbest album titles ever. It may be foolish to bypass bands because of  things such as an album title but that just tells me they are crap. Who named that album? I want to punch them in the throat. Queen of the Meadow sounds much better title-wise so I am starting there. It ain’t no Queen of the Reich, though.

M. On’ry:

Dude if I didn’t listen to a band simply because of a band name or an album title sounded ridiculous I would have never gotten into metal.  Don’t be daft (as you are fond of saying).

Mr. Lonesome:

And if you liked albums based on killer titles, you’d love Appetite for Destruction. Judge it based on the songs.

And it’s not like I haven’t given punk a try. I just don’t dig it. I can appreciate the aggression, but I’d rather listen to some metal, which offers more interesting musicality.

Mr. Mean:

I already said what you two morons said. “It may be foolish to bypass bands because of  things such as an album title”.

Punk scares you, admit it. You had a bad experience putting a safety pin through your cheek. It happens. There are myriad other reasons you need penicillin so the safety pin incident is nothing. We still love you…somewhat.

Don’t bring up that you are into metal. You like groove metal. Thrash scares you.

Mr. On’ry:

Haha!  You just told him that he’s afraid of both punk and thrash metal.  Does that mean he has nightmares where crossover bands like DRI and Cryptic Slaughter come out of the woodwork to make him pee the bed?  Hahaha!

 

Mr. Lonesome:

You are such dopes. Thrash does not scare me. In fact, I’ve been listening to a lot of metal lately. The first two Flotsam Albums (which are better than anything Anthrax ever did), Pre-Chaos AD Sepultura, just to name two bands.

The only thing that scares me about punk is that those dolts know fewer chords than I do but got laid much more often.

Mr. On’ry:

How can you listen to say Schizophrenia by Sepultura (which may be the worst produced album ever by the way) and say you don’t like screaming/gruff vocals?!?  You make absolutely no sense sometimes. 

Mr. Lonesome:

Because sometimes the music is just that good. And I prefer Arise.

Mr. On’ry:

This is where you make no sense.  You wouldn’t give a band like Rotten Sound the time of day because they were too harsh for your pristine ears yet you can justify listening to Arise?!?  God, I feel like I’m in an abusive relationship sometimes when I talk to you about music.  I think, ‘now I have it figured out’ and then you just go and smack me again. 

Mr. Lonesome:

I bet you’d be even double shocked to know I’ve seen Sepultura in concert! Of course, my first band used to cover Sepultura, so there’s that connection as well perhaps. I don’t know. I’m a weird guy. What can I say. Besides you, I might be the only person with Sepultura and Belinda Carlisle in my collection. Um. I have four of her solo albums.

Listen, if you want to make me a comp I’m always down to give bands a try. I just can’t promise I’ll enjoy it at all.

Mr. Mean:

Why this allegiance to F&J? Is it the Arizona connection? They’re good but c’mon. We talk thrash metal and you mention them and no one else (usually). Have you ever listened to Overkill or Testament? Someone else other than Flotsam and Metallica? You must worship Jason Newstead.

Hey On’ry, would he be scared s***less if he heard the first Brutal Truth?

Mr. On’ry:

There’s no way he could handle Brutal Truth.  The cover for Sounds Of the Animal Kingdom alone would make him tinkle.  Haha! 

Great call on Testament dude.  One of my all-time favorite bands.   

Mr. Lonesome:

Flotsam is most likely the AZ connection, sure. I’ve seen them about seven times in concert, so I’m quite familiar with their work. But dude: those first two albums are just amazing. I like Testament, too. Alex Skolnick is just ridiculous.

Brutal Truth. Haha. I can’t handle the truth! That I would probably agree with blindly.

Mr. Mean:

Skolnick is totally ridiculous. Good call. Their first 3 or 4 albums kill.

So, what about Carcass? They slowed down on Heartwork and Swansong. I can see you digging those records…then again, the snarling vocals will make you go pee pee.

Mr. On’ry:

I feel like we’ve maybe made fun of you a little too hard today Lonesome…what with all the references to you peeing yourself and all…

I love you man but you do drive me nuts sometimes.  Carcass is a great example dude.  He should love those two albums but he won’t because he’ll give us some dissertation about how unrelenting the vocals are.   

Carcass - a band that we think makes Mr. Lonesome pee a little...

Mr. Lonesome:

Here’s the thing. Music (like you touched on in the beginning of this regarding the HOF) is one of those things that is so subjective, who the heck knows what one person might like at any given time. We all have those bands we love based purely on nostalgia. Then there’s the bands that makes us want to punch walls, but in a good way. Then those bands that warrant an hour of darkness and headphones. That’s the unique beauty. Being able to explain why isn’t always an attainable task.

That being said: my favorite Testament album is The Ritual (followed by Souls of Black). “Miss You” is the only Stones song I like since “Angie.” And yeah, sometimes a band name (and/or album cover) will make me think twice when choosing what to hear (Cannibal Corpse is a fine example of this – but so is Lady Antebellum, who it turned out was not a hip hop artist like I hoped).

Mr. Lonesome:

I’d like to add: there is one song that does scare the bejesus out of me. “Dead Skin Mask” off Seasons in the Abyss. When that kid’s voice comes on, pleading with Mr Gein to let him go – F THAT NOISE!