We shoot our mouths off about offshoots

Mr. Lonesome:

Gentlemen.

I’ve been listening to a couple bands of late: The Guess Who, and The Raconteurs. It made me think about how some band offshoots/side-projects work and how some fail.

First, the Fail: I happen to think BTO wrote some of the absolute worst songs ever. They are the O.G. Nickleback. I’d rather listen to Steely Dan. Which is a shame, because Bachman did some really great things in The Guess Who. I think they are one of those great bands people don’t realize had so many great songs until they go “oh, that is The Guess Who, too??”

Secondly, the Success: I really love The Raconteurs. More than The White Stripes. More than Brendan Benson solo. More than the Greenhornes. I think the collaboration works incredibly well, and I find myself surprised by just how many of their tunes I like. Jack White, he’s a storyteller for sure (“Carolina Drama”) and he and Benson really complement each other vocally. The tunes are ferocious, catchy, and rather inspired. There are a few, of course, that don’t hit the mark. But overall, this band format really let White open his palette. And I think “Steady As She Goes” is one of the finest rock singles of the last decade.

Who has or hasn’t worked for you guys?

Mr. On'ry:

First of all I will agree with you 100% on both examples you gave.  I’ve always said The Guess Who were criminally underrated and I also like The Raconteurs slightly more than The White Stripes. 

Here’s a couple offshoots that worked in my mind:

Son Volt – After Uncle Tupleo broke up out of the ashes rose Wilco, the greatest dad-rock band of all-time!!!  (<-- Sarcasm Alert) Oh yeah and also out of the ashes of Uncle Tupelo rose Son Volt who is not only a better band than Wilco but one of the best alt-country/Americana acts of the last 20 years. 

Kid Dynamite – Lifetime was a highly influential (and really effing good) hardcore/punk band.  Kid Dynamite, who featured members of Lifetime was even better.  In fact I will go on record as stating that Kid Dynamite is one of the greatest punk bands of all time. All.  Time.  Period.  My only complaint is that their albums are only like 20 mins in length. 

Captain Beyond – featuring Rod Evans, the original singer from Deep Purple and a couple dudes who were in Iron Butterfly.  You want to talk about bands that were criminally underrated?  This band to me is the epitome of criminally underrated.  That first album especially belongs in the top 25 or 30 greatest rock albums of the 1970’s in my opinion.  In fact I would put the first Captain Beyond album ahead of almost every Deep Purple album that came after it, with the exception of In Rock and maybe one or two others.  You know how much I dig Deep Purple.  It’s that good.

I’m sure I’ll come up with more as we go here.  But this is a start…       

Captain Beyond - Rainbow wasn't the only Deep Purple offshoot

Mr. Mean:

Huge respect for all of your choices, both of you. Completely agree with you guys, though I do think the first Wilco record AM is really damned good.

Here’s some that worked:

Electronic – Johnny Marr and Bernard Sumner, Smiths and New Order. A great pop band. It is exactly what you would expect if those two bands merged together. I know you both will hate that.

Long Beach Dub Allstars – I hated Sublime. They were just not good, so don’t try and tell me that they were. The singer overdoses, the remaining members gear up with some other musicians, and thus this band was born. Their first album is the only one I heard and it is a great California ska/dub effort. So much better than Sublime.

Fugazi – Before this, you had Minor Threat, Embrace, Rites of Spring. Then, Fugazi. Brilliant band. Their whole body of work is amazing. I love the other aforementioned bands as well, but Fugazi was just very different sounding.

And one big one that did not work:

Assjack – Hank Williams III’s “punk” band. It is unlistenable derivative garbage. I like some of Hank III’s country stuff, but this band is just horrible. It’s beyond bad.

Mr. Lonesome:

I like Johnny Marr, and I like New Order, so yeah – good call on Electronic.

The Gutter Twins – for those that know me, you may have notices I am rather obsessed with them. Something about Greg Dulli and Mark Lanegan together works incredibly well. Their debut is top notch, all the way through. Their follow EP is top notch as well. I actually find The Gutter Twins to be a revelation to me. Great melodic, dark tunes.

Them Crooked Vultures – so, this is a dream band for me. I love Homme, Grohl, and JP Jones. A lot. And somehow, I did not like this at all. I might need to give it another try. But man, this was one of those projects where maybe my expectations were too great? I cant think of one song I liked.

Down – I love COC, Anselmo not so much. But their first record was fantastic, particularly “Stone the Crow.” The follow ups were very disappointing to me.

The Power Station – this band succeeds if for no other reason than “Some Like It Hot” being a masterpiece of a song. Their T. Rex cover was good, too. Much preferred to Arcadia. Sorry, Mr LeBon!

Them should have stuck to their other bands...

Mr. Mean:

I agree with you except for Down. Never liked them. I loved Pantera and COC, but never liked Down.

The Power Station – good call man. That album was mega. Robert Palmer, some Durans, and Chic’s Tony Thompson on the traps? Hell yes, sign me up.

Mr. Lonesome:

 Well, Down falls into “did not work” – maybe if they stopped after N.O.L.A. I don’t know. There’s some great tunes on there. The next two records were uninspired, I think. Disorganized? I’m not sure. But I’ll take “Stone the Crow” over a great handful of rock songs from that period.

Mr. On'ry:

Duuude I totally forgot about Fugazi.  Good call.  Love them…although I would take Minor Threat over them if I was forced to make a choice.  Also let me clarify that I don’t hate Wilco.  I own the first three albums.  But every record got more and more boring until they are just completely innocuous.   Yet somehow more and more praise was heaped on them to the point that they are now this band with a cult status I don’t understand at all. 

Them Crooked Vultures sucked.  Period.  What a horrible waste of talent. 

I would also like to add:

Worked:

High On Fire – Sleep is one of the most influential metal bands of the last 25 years.  They are top notch.  But Matt Pike does some of his best work with High On Fire.  They totally shred.  Surrounded By Thieves alone is a masterpiece.  The newest album is a return to form.  Totally shreds it. 

Didn’t work:

The Rossington-Collins Band – anyone who knows me knows I am a HUGE Lynyrd Skynyrd fan but this post-plane crash offshoot was disappointing at best.  I honestly bought the first album on vinyl (for $1!) hoping it would be even half as good as classic L.S. and I was sadly mistaken.  A couple decent songs but overall some boring stuff.  (Although I haven’t listened to it in like 10 years so I may go back to it this week one last time…)

Mr. Mean:

 High On Fire! Hell yes. Totally forgot about that one. I love both bands equally pretty much.

Got to be honest, I am not the biggest Skynyrd fan (first record is essential) and never bothered listening to Rossington-Collins. Good thing I didn’t I guess.

Two that worked, though most people don’t know about them:

The Specials > Fun Boy Three > The Colourfield – so after the Specials broke up, Terry Hall formed a percussive tribal sounding pop group called Fun Boy Three. Amazing stuff, only two albums worth but all are essential. Then, he forms The Colourfield, which is this psychedelic postpunk band not unlike The Teardrop Explodes or The Monochrome Set as far as kitsch and psych leanings. All three bands were great and all three were totally different.

Mr. Lonesome:

Ok, I’m glad I’m the only one that didn’t “get” Them Crooked Vultures. And like Mr Mean, I am pretty sure I’d never have even given Rossington-Collins a listen.

The Last Shadow Puppets – Mr Mean, this band is for you. Totally British, retro music. Alex Turner of the Arctic Monkeys, and Miles Kane (whose first solo album has the crazy good single “Inhaler” – though the whole record is just tops). So, this band is just awesome. I think you will dig if you haven’t heard them. Try “The Age of the Understatement” to get a feel of their vibe.

Mr. On'ry:

Oh!  I have two more for the “didn’t work pile”:

Grip Inc.  – Yeah, Dave Lombardo, one of the greatest drummers in the world, started this band after he left Slayer.  It wasn’t the worst thing in the world but man if you were hoping for something Slayer-esque you were sadly, sadly mistaken. 

G//Z/R – I’ve mentioned this band before.  Started by Black Sabbath’s Geezer Butler in the late 90’s and fronted by the dude from Fear Factory.  Let’s just say it sounded more like Fear Factory than Black Sabbath.  Not necessarily from a sonic standpoint, but simply because it sucked.   

Mr. Lonesome:

I got one for the “worked” – Rainbow (with RJD). Better than Deep Purple, I tell ya!

Mr. Mean:

Not this crap again. We should call you Mr. Minority because you are in it.

Mr. Lonesome:

 So, Mr On’ry can say that Captain Beyond’s first record is better than almost all DP that came after it, but I cant say the same about Rainbow?

What a dick.

Mr. On'ry:

 I never said you couldn’t say that.  You can say whatever you want, even if it’s wrong.  If you had chosen one Rainbow album and compared it to the full DP catalog like I did with Captain Beyond no one would have argued.  You chose to argue about both bands' full bodies of work.    

p.s. For the record I love Rainbow.  A lot. 

p.p.s Rainbow vs. Deep Purple is now another conversation I am tired of having.  I will now call you Mr. Repetitive.  

Mr. Lonesome:

I’m just saying, Rainbow with (RJD) worked. Also, I happen to listen to all that era of Rainbow more than any era of Deep Purple.  

Mr. On'ry:

Did you read the last line of my last communiqué?  I’m putting this to bed along with the stupid Beatles vs. Stones thing and all things Metallica.  

Mr. Lonesome:

Don’t use fancy letter accents on me, sir.

Also – I’m fine with not discussing further. 

Mr. On'ry:

I will be risqué and use whatever accentuated letters I choose good sir. 

Here’s another one for the “worked” pile:

Witch – I will make the inflammatory statement now that as much as I dig Dinosaur Jr, this band is my favorite project J Mascis was ever involved in (and he switched from guitar to drums for this band).    

Mr. Lonesome:

Hahaha  fair enough, Señor.

Storm Corrosion – I haven’t had the chance to listen to the record in full yet. Curious what our readers think so far.

Mr. Mean:

Mascis – What about Upsidedown Cross? Hahaha

Storm Corrosion – that one track was pretty good.

The Beatles are overrated. Up your communiqués.

Mr. Lonesome:

I’m going to add one more before we close this.

The Mars Volta – I know you both prefer At The Drive-In. To me, MV is my kind of music. Proggy, experimental, cryptic, and either beautifully lush or rapidly frenetic. “Televators” from their debut, just awesome. I’ve been working on a comp for some months, as you both know. This song has been a constant in the swirling track changes. Because of that, it has the honor of being the most listened to song on my iPod. And the reason is that every time it comes on, I listen. Over 200 times in the last 6 months or so.

Cheers.

*So tell us, what bands that formed from the ashes of other established bands do you dig...or not dig...

 

Mr. Mean goes on vacation...so two adults converse.

Mr. Lonesome:

So, it turns out Mr Mean is on yet another vacation. Sometimes I wonder if he even works at an actual company, and if his email address is a cleverly made-up domain. But why should we let him spoil the fun!

Today’s topic is vacation-themed.

Recently, you were lamenting your love for the song “Rag Doll” from Aerosmith’s Permanent Vacation album. Personally, “Angel” kicks me in the nostalgic bone. I’m not really an Aerosmith fan beyond a handful of songs. But Permanent Vacation was a renaissance for them. And it’s very interesting to note that on that record, they employed outside songwriters for the first time. What is it about Permanent Vacation that strikes you?

Additionally, we both share a very great love for Belinda Carlisle/The Go Go’s. “Vacation” is one of my earliest memories from the MTV era. Why do you think they struck a chord with you? For me, I know it’s all Belinda all the time.

Mr. On'ry:

 Good questions man.  Here’s a quick story about that Aerosmith record.  It’s literally the only Aerosmith album I own (on cassette!).  I like their 70’s output but not enough to run out and own it.  I always thought there were bands from that era who rocked harder and better (although Mama Kin is a killer tune).  When I was in 7^th grade a kid in the local high school was killed in a car accident.  (His nickname btw was “Chipper”, true story).  The day they announced over the loudspeakers that he passed (our school was 7-12 back then…brutal) they played “Angel” in its entirety.  Girls were crying, emotions were running high.  But out of that I realized that the song itself wasn’t too bad (don’t judge, I was only 13 and didn’t know this dude from Adam).  Within the same week I saw the Rag Doll video for the first time.  That weekend I bought the cassette.  So that album holds a weird sort of nostalgia for me of a lost time and losing people.

The Go-Go’s.  I wasn’t old enough to truly appreciate them at the very height of their popularity (i.e. I wasn’t old enough to buy my own music.)  My love for the Go-Go’s has grown over time; aged like fine wine if you will.  For me it’s more about the songs themselves than any one member.  I think they just write really catchy, fun pop-punk songs.

And I hate to break this to you but I don’t worship Belinda Carlisle as much as you do.  She’s not even my favorite Go-Go and I own ZERO solo records by here.  I’m sorry.  I know that hurts you.    

Mr. Lonesome:

 See, I like “Dream On” a lot. I think it’s one of those classic songs that will always endure. “Walk This Way” and “Sweet Emotion” are good, but like you, I don’t think any of their work warranted me buying an album. I don’t own any. However, I will say that Permanent Vacation, and those three singles, were pretty popular to me when they came out. “Angle” is a fantastic rock ballad, which as you know, is right up my alley. The other two were fun songs, though “Dude Looks Like a Lady” is pretty dumb lyrically. Oh, and then two years later, when “Janie’s Got A Gun” came out, I was all over it. To me, it has the distinction of being one of the best songs to ever have an awful guitar solo. Just awful.

I was the same as you during that time period with the Go-Go’s. Fortunately MTV was like a jukebox, and I could see them virtually anytime I wanted. They wrote some wonderful tunes, catchy indeed. And the attitude. Love Love. Though I am curious with your obsession with the song “You Can't Walk In Your Sleep (If You Can't Sleep)” – I notice it was on a Ladies of the Night comp, plus you included it on the iPod project you did.

And I am way cool with you not loving Belinda like I do. That means less competition for when we eventually interview her for our blog! Also – Jane Weidlin will always be the “coolest” Go-Go, if for no other reason than her inclusion in the film “Clue.”

They were an ugly band even in the 70's

Mr. On'ry:

I used to make fun of Dream On in college.  For some reason it would always seem to come one when we were in the cafeteria and I would rock the high notes as loud as possible…and I wondered why I didn’t have more friends.  Ha!  (Actually, no I didn’t.)  See, I hated “Janie’s Got A Gun”.  I still do.  Can’t stand it for some reason even though it told a poignant story.  I only liked one song on that Pump album and it’s “What It Takes”.  Love, love, love that song.  Might even be my favorite Aerosmith song of all time.  But man, “Love In An Elevator”, “The Other Side” (or whatever it was called)…there were some really terrible songs on that album.  Like really terrible. 

I’m not going to lie though all those videos they had with Alicia Silverstone in them were top notch viewing…oh wait…there was a song playing while I was watching those?  Sorry, I must have blocked them out. 

I included that Go-Go’s song on the Ladies of the Night II comp because I was trying to avoid just slapping one of their singles on there and I felt that was the song that fit best sonically for that comp.  It’s on the iPod project because I included all the songs from both Ladies of the Night comps.  Those comps were the impetus of the project.  Really more of a coincidence than something done purposefully. 

Jane was always, and still is, my favorite Go-Go…and holy crap I forgot she was in the movie Clue.  Guess what’s going to the top of my Netflix queue! 

Mr. Lonesome:

I think I like “Dream On” so much because it totally has its Zep moments on the guitar. And truth be told, it doesn’t really sound like Steven Tyler singing it. But it has just the right amount of epic bombast for me. And yes: those other songs off Pump are awful. They only got released as singles because Aerosmith became very popular. Otherwise, wow. Not single material. OH! And – And – “Livin’ on the Edge” completely stole a Pink Floyd riff. The main one in the song can be heard first on Ummagumma, on the live version of “Careful With the Axe, Eugene” – Gilmour plays it for maybe a couple bars, not very long, right after Roger comes in with the scream and the song gets intense(r).

SNL did this really great spoof of those Aerosmith songs. I think it was for an Aerosmith comp. The premise was one of those “Greatest Hits” commercials, “buy now!” kind of things. And it listed all the songs on it: Amazing, Crying, Crazy, Amazing Crazy, Crying Amazing, Amazing Crazy Crying, etc. It was genius. Though I wont lie, I did watch the videos on mute from time to time.

Fair enough on that Go-Go’s song. I was just curious if you had a particular fondness for it over some others.

Dude, “Clue” was pretty good. A board game movie done the right way. Awesome cast, clever multiple ending story. Well done.

Also – on the theme of Vacation, I thought I’d mention “Holiday Road” just so it’s now stuck in the head of everyone reading this.

BAM!

Mr. On'ry:

O.k., let me amend.  I don’t hate “Dream On”…I just like to karaoke the crap out of it in the worst possible way.  Also that SNL skit sounds like pure genius because every single one of those songs was interchangeable poop. 

Lastly, damn you for the “Holiday Road” reference.  Damn you right to hell. 

I also feel like we didn’t argue enough.  Where’s Mr. Mean to come in and drop the C-U-Next-Tuesday word and berate us for being “daft”?

Mr. Lonesome:

Sorry – I love me some Lindsey Buckingham (also involved in a running sketch on SNL), but “Holiday Road” is like that girl next door that you think is beautiful until you spend some time with her, and she turns out to be annoying enough to get into your bones in the worst possible way. Do you know why? Because Jack be nimble, Jack be quick. Whoa-oa-oa-oa-whoaaaaaa. That’s why!

And I think this is what adult conversation is supposed to be like: polite, constructive, informative.

God, I miss him too.