We Like The Ladies

Mr. Lonesome:

I thought it might be time for us to discuss the ladies in our music life. There are three I’ve been listening to a lot of late: PJ Harvey (solo, plus her work with Desert Sessions Volume 9), Kate Bush, and Beth Gibbons (with Portishead) – exclusively Roseland, NYC Live, which is my favorite live album to listen to.

Something I find in common with all three is their intensity. Something about a woman’s voice in an indelible ache that has me in swoon.

I also want to make note of Mr On’ry putting “She” by Emmylou Harris on a mix cd a bit back. That song kills.

Mr. Mean:

 

I dig the ladies. Who doesn’t, right?

I can’t really figure out what to write except for maybe 3 songs by the fairer sex that rule my life. They are:

     Tammy St. John – Dark Shadows and Empty Hallways. One of my all-time favorite songs, period. I got into it because about 15 years ago I read about Saint Etienne (another favorite of mine) sampling it. I sought it out and found it on some comp. To this day, nothing of the girl-group era comes close to melting me the way this one does. I can’t describe it. I get chills every time I hear it. It’s terribly heartbreaking and beautiful all the same. Writing about it right now makes me want to hear it. Thank goodness for Youtube because I don’t have it on my new iPhone yet. “Life is so lonely, so lonely, when love has gone”…the fact she was 16 when she sang this is amazing. It is such a mature song. The measure of how much a song moves you or makes you feel something in some certain way has a lot to do with how many times you can listen to it, over and over again, and still get the same feeling. I am on listen #3 and I may listen to it another 15 times before today is over.

      Joan Baez – The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down. A very rare occurrence when I love the cover over the original, and the original version by The Band is a special song indeed. Joan Baez, for whatever reason, made the best version of this song as far as I am concerned. I never, ever tire of this song. I remember hearing it as a kid and something about it just stuck with me.

Siouxsie & The Banshees – Mirage. “My body’s an oasis to drink from as you please”. A postpunk classic, never released as a single, and it is my favorite moment in many fine moments by one Susan Janet Ballion and her Banshees. I have everything they have ever released, right down to a B-sides box set, and this one song just hits me every time. The first album I had by them was called Once Upon A Time – The Singles, and they actually had this on it, though it was never a single. The song is that good.

Mr. Lonesome:

Righteous. Case in point why I love this blog so much, is both of you end up expanding my palette beyond the normal. I love Siouxsie & The Banshees, but I’m not familiar with that track. I look very forward to hearing it this weekend. Joan Baez never really did it for me. I know she’s passionate, but something about her singing makes it “appear” she is pushing melodrama with it, like she’s being showy. I know it’s not her fault, it’s how her vibrato goes. Tammy St. John: that song is one I’m looking forward to seeking out too.

Are you familiar with Emily Wells, by chance? She’s fantastic. Some great Youtube performances by her. She does some amazing violin riffs that she’ll loop throughout the tune, and her voice is extraordinary.

Mr.  Mean:

Never heard of Emily Wells. Listening to “Passenger” now but it’s not doing it for me. Any song you recommend?

Some more gems I love by the ladies:

Billie Davis – Tell Him (brilliant version)

Dolly Parton – My Tennessee Mountain Home (title track off of my favorite Dolly album)

Saint Etienne – Sylvie (brilliant single in a career full of brilliant singles)

Lulu – To Sir With Love (the movie, the song, her role in the film, Judy Geeson, etc)

Dusty Springfield - I Can't Wait Until I See My Baby's Face (gorgeous song, one of Dusty’s best moments)

Joni Mitchell – My Old Man (my favorite song by her, followed by “Chelsea Morning”)

Honey Cone – Want Ads (classic effing soul song)

Cocteau Twins – Lazy Calm (the intro to their “ambient” album – hauntingly sparse and gorgeous)

Ann Peebles – I Can’t Stand The Rain (classic Hi Records soul)

Shelley Fabares – Johnny Angel (my mom turned me on to this song)

Cathy Carroll – Jimmy Love (another heartbreaker that gives “Leader of the Pack” a run for its money about boyfriends dying)

Suzi Quatro – Can The Can (before she was Tuscadero, she kicked major ass on the charts)

The Three Degrees – When Will I See You Again? (Philly soul via Gamble & Huff, one of the best soul songs)

Grace Jones – La Vie En Rose (yes, I actually do like Grace Jones musical output and her version of this song is perfect in many ways)

Lush – Sweetness And Light (I totally fell in love with Miki Berenyi when I saw the video for this and still love her)

Diana Ross – Ain’t No Mountain High Enough (same emotions/feelings as with the Tammy St. John song)

Betty Davis – F.U.N.K. (hot, nasty, brutal mid-70s funk jam by Miles’ ex-wife)

I went back to Tammy St. John. That has to be at least 9 times today for that song.

One female artist we can all agree on!

Mr. Lonesome:

Try this one, specifically: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNWto4xiCcw 

I also really love her Symphony 6 Fair Thee Well and the Requiem Mix. But the above link is a great live performance of Symphony 1.

Mr. Mean:

I just can’t get into her man, sorry. Her voice makes me cringe. She reminds me of people I actually do like but her stuff just annoys me for some reason.

Mr. Lonesome:

No shame in that.

I once again failed you.

Mr. Mean:

What’s weird is her voice reminds me, at times, of Cerys Matthews. I dig Cerys’s solo stuff but never got into Catatonia at all. The violins/looping kinda annoys me, too. Odd coming from a guy who likes gadgets and synths, but I hate the looping of something organic. Play the damn thing.

Mr. Lonesome:

See, I thought you’d like the looping the most. And in fairness, she cant play the damn thing because she’s by herself, dummy. That’s why she loops the riff, so she can then play over it.

You are an enigma sometimes.

Mr. Mean:

I get that. I watched her, moron. In that case, get a damned backing band. I said I hated the organic backing, which means the violin. If she can’t write a song without layering 70 violins, then she should do something else.

Mr. Lonesome:

That is such a narrow-minded thing to say from someone who loves Pet Sounds/Brian Wilson...

Mr. Mean:

Dude what do you want from me? I listened to two songs and I don’t like her. The looping bit is a microcosm of the reason why I don’t dig her sound. Her voice ruined it for me.

Mr. Lonesome:

I want your blood, so I can then splash it on Morrissey’s face to burn his skin.

I just took exception to this line: “If she can’t write a song without layering 70 violins, then she should do something else.”

No worries.

Mr. Mean:

OK so it is a bit hypocritical of me considering my love of sequencers and drum programming. The turn off is the organic instrument fed into a chip and looped. On record, I am fine with that if you’re doing it on your own. But in a live setting, get other people to play with, plain and simple. She can obviously play the instrument. So get other people and do an ensemble of it.

On that note, I am out and done with this one. Listen to Tammy St. John and shut the hell up. 

Mr. On'ry:

 

First off, I'm really sorry to be so late to this one.  Here it goes:

I'm not really sure what to add to this other than I love the ladies so much I decided to make not one, but two comps that focused on female artists/female fronted bands.  Here's the track listing:

Vol I:

 She - Emmylou Harris

 Look At Miss Ohio - Gillian Welch

 Portions For Foxes - Rilo Kiley

 Almost Persuaded - Etta James

 Don't Come Home A-Drinkin - Loretta Lynn

 Leavin' On Your Mind - Patsy Cline

 Sentimental Heart - She & Him

 Maybe - Janis Joplin

 Set Out Running - Neko Case

 Linger - The Cranberries

 Belle of the Bar - Sarah Borges & The Broken Singles

 For The Rest of Your Life - Hope Sandoval & the Warm Inventions

 Danger Bird - 27

 Fancy Funeral - Lucinda Williams

Vol II

Billie Holiday - Do Nothing 'Till You Hear From Me

Connie Francis - My Happiness

Aretha Franklin - Do Right Woman, Do Right Man

Dusty Springfield - Son Of A Preacher Man

The Go-Go's - You Can't Walk In Your Sleep (If You Can't Sleep)

Shilpa Ray & Her Happy Hookers - Venus Shaver

Mount Moriah - Lament

Amanda Shires - When You Need a Train It Never Comes

Bee And Flower - Riding On Empty

The Gathering - Broken Glass

Mythical Beast - Cycle/Circle

Blood Ceremony - Night of Augury

Heart - Crazy On You

Royal Thunder - Mouth Of Fire

The Runaways - Neon Angels On The Road To Ruin

There are still so many more great female fronted acts that I could make an entire 3rd comp...and I think I just might! 

Oh and Mr. Mean the thing about layering music you said was pretty effing stupid.  I know you were trying to prove a point about just not liking that particular artist but I once saw one woman on stage use various means to layer her own vocals and guitar and it was one of the most memorable performances I've ever witnessed.  She goes by the name O Paon.  Look her up.  Beautiful stuff. 

I too now want the blood and brains of Morrissey splattered all over a wall!  (oh wait, that isn't what he said...never mind I want it anyway!)  

Mr. Mean:

So it took you 5 days to reply and all you could come up with was a rehashing of your tracklists? Boring. (EDITOR"S NOTE: Yes, sadly, that is all that Mr. On'ry could muster...)

And I stand by my remarks. In a live setting, with organic instruments, play the damned things or have people who can. I want to see the musicians playing them together…that would be far more entertaining to see how they could all play and mesh together.

So tell us:  What female artists do it (or don't do it) for you? 

 
 

It just doesn't fit...

Mr. Lonesome:

I was recently reading about the composition of The Cure’s Disintegration. It was pretty fascinating. The one thing that stuck with me is Robert Smith discussing the inclusion of “Lovesong.” Besides the fact that there is no general given way to spell it (it’s listed variously, even on the same records, as either “Lovesong” or “Love Song”), many critics (and fans, and fantics, if you will) feel as though it is completely out of place on the record. An actual love song on an album with such lyrical despair felt wickedly odd. To Smith’s credit, he said that song made the album what it is; rather, the album would be completely different without it: "That one song, I think, makes many people think twice. If that song wasn't on the record, it would be very easy to dismiss the album as having a certain mood. But throwing that one in sort of upsets people a bit because they think, 'That doesn't fit'."

Of course, this is coming from a guy who would specifically write pop tunes as singles just because he felt people labeled the band as such and such at any given time (i.e. “The Lovecats” and “Let’s Go to Bed” to escape the purely goth image, and then writing the songs for Disintegration when he felt people found Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me as too poppy). So, it makes sense he would include “Lovesong” on the album. And truth be told, musically, I think it fits perfectly. I couldn’t imagine Disintegration any other way.

That being said: are there any songs out there that you find to be inappropriate for an album you love, whether it didn’t fit, or you just didn’t like it?

For me, I’m going to start with “Illegal Alien” from the self titled Genesis album. This is one of my favorite records, mostly because it starts off so creepy, with “Mama” – then, you get a song about ghosts, with “Home By the Sea” and “Second Home By the Sea” – excellent melody to that song, and Mr Collins never sang so intensely as he does on “Mama” and “Home By the Sea.” “That’s All” is another great tune, second in the track listing. “Illegal Alien” was released as a single, and I guess it is a bit catchy. But when it’s followed by a song about a P.I. (“Just A Job to Do”) and the surreal “Silver Rainbow” I think the weird, campy, silly “Illegal Alien” just sounds very out of place. I always end up tracking past that one. And it really bothers me, because I think it ruins an otherwise creative record.

What comes to mind for you fellas? 

Mr. On'ry

First of all I'm going to completely disagree with you on "Lovesong".  I think it's a brilliant tune and fits perfectly on the album, maybe not lyrically but certainly sonically. 

This is a great topic though and got me thinking about some of my favorite albums.  The biggest and best example I can come up with off the top of my head is "Repo Man" by Ray LaMontagne.  I honestly think that his most recent album, God Willin' & The Creek Don't Rise, is not only his best album but it's one of my favorite albums possibly of all-time.  Like Top 30 or 40 albums ever released...ever.  I think it's that good.  But that opening track, the aforementioned "Repo Man" is a throw away track in my book.  What's worse is that it opens the album!  In fact I got so used to skipng it right away that I honestly forgot the song existed and when I burned it to my iPod, sans "Repo Man", I started to think that the second track, "New York City's Killing Me" actually started the album.  That first track though is just so out of place, especially sonically, and frankly just not that good.  Thank the musical gods that wasn't the first song I heard off this record or I might never have discovered one of my favorites.   

We need to 'repo' one song from this

Mr. Mean:

 

I actually like “Lovesong” too. In fact, I am sick when Cure fans dismiss the song because it charted in the top 10 and was poppy. The Cure had gone pop before that so put on your black eyeliner and shut the eff up. The extra tracks they added to the cd of Disintegration ruin the album for me. I actually made a cd to mimic what the original album had, with “Disintegration” ending the album. Flows so much better that way. The extra tracks are just filler and should be B-sides instead.

Not familiar enough with Ray LaMontagne to comment, but I think I am going to check that album out on your recommendation.

One of mine is “Orion” in the middle of Master Of Puppets. No, I am not bringing up Metallica to fuel some fire here. I really do think “Orion” just needs to go away. It doesn’t work at all. The album as seven songs would be so much better.

Another is on The Cult’s Love, an all-time favorite album of mine. “Brother Wolf Sister Moon” is right in the middle of the album and it just meanders along. It’s long and drawn out and it just ruins the flow of the album. It would be best as used at the very end, though “Black Angel” is already there and is the other slow song on the album. I like that one better of the two, so I’d rather just eliminate the other song.

A major gripe of mine is having a US release of a UK band and the US label tweaking the running order or adding/eliminating songs. Case in point: “How Soon Is Now” smack dab in the middle of the Sire release of Meat Is Murder. Eff that. The song is not even that great anyway. I have a copy of cd on Rough Trade with the UK tracklisting and it eliminates “How Soon Is Now”, so the album flows exactly how it should. That said, they could eliminate the title track as well because, well, yeah.

Yazoo (Yaz in the US for some stupid reason) had their debut album, a classic in its own right, released in the US (on Sire, of course) and they eliminated what I think is one of their best songs, “Tuesday”. Once again, I went to the UK cd pressing on Mute and bought that so I could have “Tuesday” and hear the album the way Yazoo wanted it to be.

The Wolfgang Press’s album Queer was released in the UK without “A Girl Like You”, which ultimately ended up being their biggest single. When 4AD released the album in the States, they added it but it just does not work with the rest of the album. I bought the import so that may have some bearing on my gripe, but the album flowed so well. I am not against tacking on a song at the end of a cd release as a bonus track, single only release, b-side, whatever. I think this is making the case for vinyl if you ask me.

Mr. Lonesome:

On’ry, I think you misread my comment about “Lovesong” – especially this line: “And truth be told, musically, I think it fits perfectly. I couldn’t imagine Disintegration any other way.” Additionally, I have a special place in my heart for it because it was my favorite singular song to play on the bass. That’s right. I made my former bandmates, who loved bands like Train and Matchbox 20 ::shudder:: cover The Cure. This is why I’m awesome.

I, too, am unfamiliar with that LaMontagne album. I’ll look into it this weekend. And I love “Orion” actually. I think it’s a fantastic instrumental, and it fits where it is on the record, and with the sound as a whole on the record.

I like how you brought up the US/UK thing, Mean. I know the Stones had a lot of it going on. It has me flummoxed as to how a record company can choose how the artist wants to be expressed. But I will stop there, I literally could go on for pages about it.

I do have one addition: “Seamus” off Meddle. It’s the track that keeps that record from being, arguably, Pink Floyd’s best. It doesn’t fit with the mood of the album, and it’s rather silly. I’m fine with the upbeat “San Tropez” on there, cos it’s catchy. I think “Seamus” and that howling dog need to go.

Mr. Mean:

 

I love how we can even disagree on a Metallica album we both love. Hahahaha

Good point about the Stones…it was rampant back then though. The Beatles had albums come out over here that were nothing like the UK version. Same with the Kinks. I don’t think it is as bad these days. Labels will just tack on bonus tracks for the most part and be done with it.

Agreed on “Seamus”. It just does not work at all. I do love “San Tropez” a lot though. Great song.

Mr. Lonesome:

Very true!! But, I think Master of Puppets is a perfect album. I really don’t dislike any of those songs in any way.

Yeah, the 60s had some weird thought of “well, Americans aren’t like the English. We need to trick them and mix things up a bit. They’ll never know the difference.” Strange concept to me.

One guy is tired of talking about this band

Mr. Mean:

See, right there…”Orion” is the one song that keeps me from thinking the album is perfect. Eliminate that song and you have a brilliant 45 minute LP. Another thing that upsets me about it is the fact that it is the second longest track on the album! I could have used another few minutes of thrashing on “Battery” if they wanted to keep the length.

The thing was this: at the time in the UK, even well into the punk/new wave days, bands released singles and they were not on the albums. One of my favorite bands of the punk era, The Jam, released a ton of classic singles that were not on albums and were not collected until they released Snap! a year after they broke up. Americans were into the singles, so the albums had to be altered to fit some singles on them, and they omitted songs in the process. The art of the single got away from the UK in the 70s until punk came into focus. Many bands of that era released singles that were not on the album. The Clash’s first album is another one. The UK version is almost unrecognizable compared to the one we saw here in the States. When Sony remastered their catalogue in the late 90s, they at least had the decency to release both the UK and US version here.

Mr. Lonesome:

Well, this might be an inaccurate assessment, but I’ve always felt that instrumentals were preferred by musicians. I learned how to play it on the bass, and I have an insane appreciation for the composition of it. The main chord sequence is killer, the solos are some of my favorites from Kirk, and Cliff’s melodic bassline during the breakdown in the middle. The time signature changes also present a fun challenge. It totally makes me wanna geek out.

Mr. Mean:

And that is a good point. I am not a musician, just a huge lover of all music. My ears dictate what I like and what I don’t. The time signatures and intricacies mean nothing to me. I can’t play note #1 or sing in perfect tune. But I like music. Being a musician gives you a different appreciation for certain things in songs. 

Mr. Lonesome:

Absolutely. And not that it means I’m wrong or I’m right. But I do love “Orion” for maybe the same reasons you do not!

And back to your US/UK releases, you hit it on the head. I was actually looking at Stones releases last week, and the US versions totally had those singles on them, where as the UK versions did not (i.e. “The Last Time” and “(I Can’t Get No) Satisfaction” being on the US release of Out of Our Heads).

Mr. On'ry:

Don't forget that AC/DC and Judas Priest had entire albums reworked and renamed for US consumption.  Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, the list is endless of bands who had the occasional song excluded from either the US or UK versions of their releases.  It's ridiculous and drives me up a wall. 

I refuse to speak on Metallica anymore.  I will not comment.

Mr. Mean:

Yeah dude I tend to forget about those bands. AC/DC especially. Hell, Dirty Deeds didn’t come out in the States until 1981 I think.

Quit being a brat. We were not even arguing about Metallica. We actually (holy crap!) had a decent discussion on the matter that shed some actual light on where we both are. But you’re too chicken to say if “Orion” sucks or not.

Mr. On'ry:

Just because you weren’t cursing at each other didn’t mean that it was a disagreement.  You even said it yourself: “I love how we can even disagree on a Metallica album we both love.”   And it didn’t shed any light – he likes it because he’s a musician, you don’t because your “ears like what they like”.  I’m just tired of talking about this band.  Every single conversation one of you brings them up.  You’re making me hate even the albums I like at this point. 

Oh and if you must know I think Orion is a decent song.  It’s my least favorite track on the album but I also wouldn’t remove it either.  So there.    

Mr. Mean:

Well up yours then.

*You tell us, what songs don't seem to fit on otherwise stellar albums... 

We got the Disappointment Blues...

Mr. Lonesome:

Music: the greatest single invention since Farrah Fawcett circa 1976.

Of course, when you have such passion for something, there must be an inevitable let-down. Either from an album you’ve been anticipating the release like it’s a new Star Wars action figure lost in the Lucas Vaults, or from an album in a band’s canon that you are exploring years after it came out. Here’s my list of three major disappointments, moments that made me almost as sad as when my parents divorced.

    1. Kid A – Radiohead. When I was in college, I got turned onto The Bends. It was fantastic. I would listen to it straight through, then listen to it again. So when OK Computer was scheduled for release, I was very much anticipating it. Then, the video for “Paranoid Android” premiered, and it was a revelation: a complex, beautifully executed suite. I’d never heard Radiohead hitting on all cylinders quite like that before. The beat, the acoustic, the electrics over top showering in atmospherics, the vocals soaring to falsetto, the quirky lyrics that were so quirky they were profound, the insane distortion riffs, the angelic middle section, then the reprise. All set to killer British animation, to boot. When the album was released, I ate it up like oxygen. My bandmate, at the time, and I learned all the songs, and were challenged by how interesting and creative and layered the pieces were. The production was lovely, dark, not over-done in any sense. This was my Dark Side of the Moon, an album timely themed in alienation, scored with lush and majestic sounds. And Radiohead became the band that could do no wrong. That is, until they released Kid A. And though every music critic seemed to essentially stroke their genius for innovation and evolution, I basically heard an album of songs that made me want to punch grandmothers. The soundscapes were diluted with monotonous beats, uninventive progressions, and just plain old ridiculous moments of what I felt were miles down from their previous two records (this is where I say that the Bends and OK Computer were so good, we pretend as though Pablo Honey never existed). Plain and simple, I was “let down… crushed like a bug in the ground.” After all this time, I only have three songs from that entire recording on my iPod. Truly disappointing.

      

    2. Use Your Illusion I – Guns N’ Roses. This is another where prior expectation played a role in my extreme disappointment. Appetite for Destruction is one of the finest rock albums ever recorded. It played like a soundtrack to my middle school years, minus the drugs and booze and intercourse, of course. I actually owned it on vinyl. And I still go back to it every couple months to listen to it from start to end. The Lies EP was fine. I didn’t care for the first side of live tracks, but I loved the four acoustic numbers. “Patience” is still a classic every way you look at it. So when they were set to release their not-exactly-a-double-album of new songs, sure – I bought both the day they came out. Even though the first single was on Use Your Illusion II, I am a purist, so I played the first cd first. And my goodness it sucked. It was disorganized, lacking any sort of congruency whatsoever (it so turned out that many of the songs on the record were older-penned songs, some even pre-dating Appetite for Destruction – and it’s easy to see why they weren’t released previously). It was like they were trying to make a Stones album, showing all their influences in a tight package, letting multiple band members sing, etc. It was a mess. And mostly, it was simply because the songs just weren’t any good. The only highlights were the Izzy songs (specifically “Dust N’ Bones” and the underrated “Double-Talkin’ Jive”) and the final epic, “Coma.” I don’t give any credit to their cover of “Live and Let Die” or to the ridiculously melodramatic “November Rain.” Which is a shame, because the latter would have been a great song if it wasn’t so saturated in cliché. Use Your Illusion II is a superior record, though it also had some awful moments too (“Get In the Ring” and “My World” – for real?). To this day, I chose to listen to Chinese Democracy over Illusion I. If only they would have combined the best tracks from the two and made one record. 

      

    3. Queensryche – PD (Post DeGarmo, for those reading at home). One of my all time favorite bands whose legacy is becoming that of a serious Has-Been. And that breaks my heart. They began in Seattle, playing a mixture of Maiden and Priest, then they formed their own identity on Rage For Order, a strange album with brilliant songs. Their follow-up was the immortal Operation: Mindcrime, the best “story” concept album of all time in my opinion. It really has not one misguided note or lyric. Their next album was the commercial breakthrough, Empire, with a slew of hits (including “Silent Lucidity” which still gives me an uneasy yet awesome feeling when I hear it). Promised Land came next, and it blew me away. Though not generally a favorite of fans or, especially, critics, I think it is an absolute trip (and one I’ll speak at length about if anyone dares me to – additionally, the tour supporting this album happened to be the best single show I ever saw. Simon Kennedy, you were there!). They made one more album with DeGarmo, then he was done. And so was the band. They carried on, and though there were some song highlights scattered here and there, as you’d hope there should be, the records became pretty dreadful in the sense of not sounding like the band you once loved. Their last two records, in fact, are just pretty much fodder, with boring songwriting. The only PD exception is the very good Tribe, which coincidentally brought DeGarmo back to pen some songs. Otherwise, this band became a former all-star with bad knees who was too proud (frightened) to retire. Chris DeGarmo, on the other hand, built my Hot Rod. 

     

The beginning of a long end.

    

    Mr. Mean:

First of all, no. Farrah Fawcett, no. Jaclyn Smith and Kate Jackson all the way.

Aside from that, you have some good points below, though I must confess to listening to nothing (except Promised Land, thanks to you) after Queensryche post-1990. Kid A did not piss me off as much as it did you, and, dare I say, I have actually enjoyed parts of that album immensely, something I cannot say about OK Computer. The parts I liked totally ripped off Aphex Twin and I like Richard D. James so it worked for me. GNR…as you know, I never got into them, and I agree that UYI I&II should have been one album’s worth, like many double albums (ahem, White Album).

Here’s some of mine:

The Mission – Masque. So, yeah, I listened to a lot of alternative (college rock, postpunk, whatever you want to call it) music in the late 80s/early 90s and I always liked The Mission. I had their other albums, so when Masque came out in 1992, I jumped on it. At first (for like the next 15 years) I simply hated it. They got “poppy” and went the indie dance route, abandoning all of their Batcave and 120 Minutes leanings for the “in” sound that was going on in England at the time. Hell, even U2 (“Mysterious Ways”) and The Cure (“Never Enough”) got into that vibe. What strikes me is the fact that the 87-92 scene in England is my favorite music scene ever. Whether indie, Madchester, acid house, shoegaze, etc., I loved it all. Masque, for the most part, kinda fell into the same scene, though they still looked goth and the album was called, well, Masque, none of which made me think Happy Mondays or The Stone Roses. I should have liked this album initially but I did not. Why? They changed their sound 360 degrees. I went back and listened to it a few years back and, all of a sudden, it clicked with me. I like it now. I actually think some of the tracks on it are their best ever. But, in 1992, I wanted them to be as dark as they were previously. This album disappointed me big time back then.

R.E.M. – Up. I love R.E.M. (listening to Murmur as I type this). Up, the first album post-Bill Berry,was just horrible. I don’t even own it. I don’t even want to write about it here. The only album I have by them after Berry left was Accelerate because, well, it kicks major butt and reminds me of Lifes Rich Pageant, which is my all-time favorite album by them.

Metallica – Metallica. I know, I know, here we go again with the Metallica thing. But dudes, I tell you this: I wanted this to be a good album, I wanted this to be a classic, but I was severely let down. I should have known it was not going to be good when I saw that 1) Bob Rock produced it and 2) it was self-titled. If a band cannot come up with a title to an album, then they probably cannot write and record a good album. Yes, I know about Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin having self-titled albums that are classics. But, for the most part in the modern era, it is just effing laziness. The album, as a whole, is not a worthless pile of crap. There are some good songs on it that should have made up a mini album or something. Trim off 6-7 songs and you’ll have a classic on your hands. This album jump started a lot of people in discovering Metallica. It basically started my gradual “I don’t give a crap about Metallica” anymore. See also: Anthrax - Sound Of White Noise.

Brutal Truth – Need To Control. Unsure if Chip is with me or not on this one, but I hate this album. Brutal Truth released what is, in my opinion, one of the best grindcore albums ever made called Extreme Conditions Demand Extreme Responses. They followed that up with this one and I never, ever, got through the whole thing start to finish once. I turned it off here and there, would go back and listen to it again, and nothing clicked. Perhaps because it followed up one of the genre’s staples meant it had no chance anyway. Maybe I was too hung up on the first one to give it a shot. But, no matter what I did, nothing on this album hit me at all. I hated the cover art, and even their choice of using The Germs’ “Media Blitz” (one of my all-time favorite punk songs) did not seal the deal for me. Chip…am I nuts? Do you feel the same way?

UP was down for Mr. Mean.

Mr. Lonesome:

I enjoyed your list. And it’s nice to see you got into The Mission album years after the fact. It makes this particular experiment worthwhile, because it shows what kind of extreme expectations we put on the bands we love.

As far as Queensryche, you are fine stopping at Promised Land. As I mentioned, there are good songs here and there, and they’d make a fine comp. I guess that’s why we’ve (the Public, the Industry) moved to such a digital, download age: bands just generally don’t make good albums anymore. Especially the bands that we’ve loved and have seen age. Rush is a great example of this. I think Counterparts is a great record, but after that, you have maybe a small handful of exceptional songs paired with some very uninspired pieces per record.

And I share your hatred of double-albums. I cant think of one (other than The Wall, which works for me because it is designed to be a story and has some fantastic songs to boot – though let’s not forget it’s really about 60 minutes long and could be one record as it is) that shouldn’t have been consolidated into a singular album: The White Album, Mellon Collie, etc. It’s ridiculous excess, quantity over quality.

Mr. Mean:

Every time I think about bloated double albums, I think about the White Album and Mellon Collie. Both would be great single albums.

Your point about Rush is totally spot on. I feel the same way but for different reasons than yours, I would imagine. Counterparts is their last great album, no doubt. Some of the stuff on that record rivals their best work. The problem with me is that, while some of the songs are good and “Rush” sounding, their later records suffer from the loudness wars controversy when it comes to recording/mastering. Test For Echo is one of the most unbearable aural experiences that rivals RHCP’s Californication as one of the worst albums sonically speaking. You look at the wave forms for those records and they are crunched together and just nasty in the red sounding. It is hard to listen to bands you loved make albums that progressively get worse. Megadeth and Metallica are also those bands, at least for me. I actually like Countdown to Extinction but everything after is just crap.

I brought up R.E.M. before and they are another one that just should have given up, though if they had, I would not have Accelerate and, like I said, it is a great album. I know you guys hate them, but I love R.E.M. When I was 13 I heard “Fall On Me” and it was one of the most beautiful songs I had ever heard up to that point. I bought the album it came from (Lifes Rich Pageant) and thought that the song after “Fall On Me” called “Cuyahoga” was one of the most beautiful songs ever. Coincidentally, they are both about the ills of pollution. They were a vital part of my musical upbringing when I had money to buy music and a video channel to watch videos on. From about 1986-1990, I was heavily into the US college rock scene and it was because of my discovery of R.E.M. and The Replacements in 1986. I bought Rolling Stone for the record reviews (they were really into the college sound back then) and the Gavin Report top ten charts for college albums. I sought out everything I saw on MTV and read about in Rolling Stone, artists as diverse as Died Pretty and The Ophelias to Shona Laing and Flat Duo Jets. I always said I want my ashes dropped somewhere in Manchester, England, but I think I need to have some thrown in Athens, GA as well. Those two cities completely made me who I am today as far as a music lover, DJ, and record collector.

I strayed off here and apologize for that. This time of year (Spring) always gets me thinking about nostalgia and youth. College rock was a huge part of it.

Mr. Lonesome:

Well, until On’ry gets on the ball, we can wax nostalgia as much as we like.

I don’t dislike R.E.M., for the record. But they aren’t a favorite either. They are a band where I love a good deal of their songs a lot (such as “The One I Love” and “Stand” and “Orange Crush”), but they also greatly bore me on other occasions. But they are certainly a band to revisit, particularly the 80s stuff for which you so greatly pine.

And regarding the sound clipping, you mention it frequently when it comes to (certain) reasons you dislike an album, Personally, it doesn’t bother me so much. I can hear the sound being less than good, but I’m also not using fantastic speakers when I listen these days. To me, the opposite is annoying, those recordings that are so quiet it’s unbearable. I had to buy the recent remastering of the Wall just so I could have a louder version of “Hey You.”

Mr. On'ry:

Well, once again I’m tardy to the party.  My bad.  You know, I’ve been thinking a lot about this topic and to be honest I’ve mentally compiled a list of like two dozen bands/albums.  But in the interest of time and sanity I’m going to refrain from offering up any more.  Besides, almost every single example I came up with was from the metal genre and for certain bands I’d feel like I would be talking to myself to be honest.  Cop out?  Absolutely.  Instead, because you two have given me enough ammo, I’m going to talk about a couple of your selections:

Brutal Truth – Dude I won’t argue with you that Need To Control is probably the weakest album in their catalog.  But it’s not a horrible record and to be honest their best efforts came after that album.  Sounds of the Animal Kingdom is their best album in my opinion.  You want to talk about a classic of the grind genre?  That’s the one you should hone in on.  It’s nasty good.  If you gave up on this band completely because of Need To Control you’ve missed some great albums since then.  Just saying. 

Megadeth/Metallica – I don’t know if any bands have ever disappointed me as much as these two have over the years.  I don’t think we need to rehash this anymore but when I look back on their 80’s material specifically it’s almost like a parent looking at baby pictures of their child who, as an adult, is now in prison for some heinous crime.  In this case the heinous crimes are horrible, horrible music.  It cuts me that deep.

I’m not going to talk about REM because I no longer have anything constructive to add to this conversation.  They are another band, much like the Beatles and Metallica that I’m getting tired of discussing.  I’m also getting tired of having to defend my dislike for them.  Mr. Mean, I appreciate your story about them.  That’s awesome that they had that effect on you in your formative years.  I’ll leave it at that. 

O.k., hell with it, I’m on a roll.  Here’s a couple examples that most should recognize:

Danzig – III: How The Gods Kill – I love, LOVE the first two Danzig albums.  They were on constant rotation for a long time for me.  But this album just bored the crap out of me.  I’ve gone back too  and tried to figure out where it went wrong for me and I still can’t place it.  Maybe I simply outgrew Danzig?  I don’t know.  All I know is that I still don’t like this record years later.  It still bores me to no end. 

GZR – Do you guys remember this band?  This is the band that Geezer Butler of Black Sabbath fame formed in the 90’s.  Their first album Plastic Planet came out in 1995 when I was working in college radio for the first time.  I was so excited when I read (in Terrorizer Magazine!) that Geezer had a new band and was about to release a new record.  I mean, the dude helped pen (and wrote most of the lyrics for) my all-time favorite band.  Yeah that album and all subsequent albums are awful.  Just…plain…awful.  That band spent their entire first album simply searching for an identity and they never found it.  The vocalist (Burton Bell from Fear Factory) was god awful and the whole thing was just a disappointing mess.  Fun story though – I was asked by their label (TVT Records I think?) if I wanted to interview Geezer Butler for my radio show but on one condition – we had to talk about the new band and new album ONLY.  NO Black Sabbath questions.  Sure, I said.  Anything to interview a musical hero…then I proceeded to ask two questions about the new album and spent the rest of it talking about Sabbath.  Ha!  Best. Interview. Ever!!!  And you know what, he didn’t mind one bit.  

Mr. Lonesome:

Thank you for not dissing my choices. Or me, in fact. And your story about Geezer is quintessential awesome. No other words to add there.

I have to confess, I really LOVE the title track to How the God’s Kill (it’s actually on my current Metal Comp “Thor”). There are a couple other tracks on there I like, but overall, yeah, it’s pretty boring.

Getting back to GZR, it’s funny you mention how bad the singer was. When Chris DeGarmo left Queensryche, he formed a band called Spys4Darwin that came out with an EP. I was stoked, naturally. He had Mike Inez and Sean Kinney on it, while both were in AIC. The downfall was the singer. They picked the dude from Sponge. I don’t even want to google his damn name, that’s how bad he was. As you can imagine, that EP is all that exists from the potential of DeGarmo continuing on. After that, he became a pilot.

And for the record: I like both Countdown to Extinction and The Black Album. Not my favorites by either band, but also not their worst. Though I think Megadeth took a more straight line down than Metallica from that point.

*Tell us, what albums disappointed you the most?