We Sold Our Souls For Rock N' Roll...specifically Black Sabbath

Mr. Lonesome:

Gentlemen.

Two weeks ago, I announced that Iron Maiden surpassed Black Sabbath as my favorite metal band. Today, I’m here to say my brain is like the BCS rankings and Sabbath is again in the #1 spot.

In honor of their awesomeness, I want to have a detailed discussion on Black Sabbath.

I’ll start, by explaining how they fell back into the #1 spot for me: I listened to them.

With all the greats, there is no denying the genius of riffs. It’s why we listen and love in the first place. But for me, there are more Maiden songs I can skip over than Sabbath songs. And that consistency of awesomeness maintains their legacy. Sure, we can talk about their innovation, coming out dark and heavy when no one else was doing it. But just because the Wright Bros flew a plane for, what, 14 seconds, it doesn’t mean they rode that same plane for the next couple decades. Sabbath came out, introduced something interesting and, frankly, needed, and they continued to pummel.

We keep listening because of the music, its sustainability, its ability to carry over and maintain relevancy to this day. It doesn’t sound dated: it sounds like G-d banging drums eternal.

I’d like to get into Ozzy and RJD solo too, but please throw your initial thoughts.

GO.


Mr. Mean:

So, I go back and forth a bit on things related to Sabbath for a number of reasons. First of all, yes, they were great, they were pioneers, they were the first, yadda yadda. I just can’t consider them metal, therefore not in the same league as Maiden. Sabbath was a hard blues/rock band. The term heavy metal, at the time, was thrown everywhere there were loud guitars, whether it was Hendrix, Clapton, Led Zep, Blue Cheer, even freakin’ Vanilla Fudge was deemed heavy metal. It was hard, loud, dark rock and blues. Sabbath was signed to a newly formed PROGRESSIVE ROCK label called Vertigo, so at the time, they were pretty much deemed prog. “21^st Century Schizoid Man” came out in ’69 and is “metal” sounding, too. The lines between blues/rock, prog, and metal all blurred. Heavy metal, as far as I am concerned, started with Priest. If I had to pick my favorite METAL band, it’s Iron Maiden, with Priest not far behind. Out of the “big 3” proto metal bands, Sabbath is my favorite, then Deep Purple, and Zeppelin is far distant fourth behind Sir Lord Baltimore.

Musically, they just got better and better. The problem is that the production got crappier. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath should be godlike, but the production leaves it so thin and makes me wonder what it could be like in the annals of rock history had it sounded remotely good. Another factor about them, from Ozzy to RJD, is that the first four Sabbath albums are brilliant and the first two with RJD are right there with them. The last four Ozzy ones are good, not great.

   


Mr. Lonesome:

Oh, where to begin.

Ok – let’s just agree to disagree with the definition of metal. In retrospect, I think we can deem what was and what wasn’t metal. Hendrix, Clapton, etc, they were not metal. Sabbath absolutely was. They exceeded “hard rock/blues” by using one very instrumental element: the power chord. That’s right there is generally what separates a metal band from a hard rock band (specifically, bands with slow-medium tempos. Thrash and Prog, etc. are a whole different discussion on theory, mainly because they are more influence by classical music than blues).

Also, Sir Lord F’ing Baltimore over Zep?

Jesus.



Mr. Mean:

Sorry gents, I just do not like Led Zeppelin that much. They are merely ok to me. Sir Lord Baltimore was fricking amazing.



Mr. On'ry:

I don't even know where to begin with some of this lunacy so I'll try to go chronologically here.

First and foremost anyone who says Black Sabbath isn't a metal band is a f*cking moron.  Period.  The first notes from the first album trickled out of Satan's orifices straight to Iommi's stubs and reinvented everything heavy that came after it.  Saying Sabbath isn't metal because of the time period they recorded is like saying the person who invented the wheel doesn't count because the wheel wasn't on a car.  It has no logic to it at all.  Now if you want to call bands like Sir Lord Balitomore, Deep Purple, Blue Cheer, Pentagram, etc. "proto-metal" as is popular today and deem Judas Priest as the first "pure" heavy metal" band I'm o.k. with that.  But Sabbath IS metal and I could even argue that their first seven albums are more "metal" than the first three Priest records (and certainly the first two albums with Dio are).  Priest didn't start playing "metal" until, what, maybe Stained Class in 1978 and everything they did before that was also pretty much "blues based, prog influenced rock".  Sooooo...that theory is shot to piss as well.  Oh and are you one of those guys that runs around saying that bands on labels like, say, Alternative Tentacles couldn't be metal because they weren't on a "metal label"?  Because that's a pretty silly argument as well.

Secondly, we've had this discussion multiple times about the album Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath specifically.  I actually listened to a handful of songs off that record yesterday.  With the exception of the song Sabbra Cadabra (which has an inexplicably low mix that drives me nuts as well) the production on this album is not lacking.  I really don't know what the eff you are talking about.  I'm pretty sure that all that bad dance music you listen to has crapped up your hearing because Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath is one of the greatest records ever made.  EVER.  The songs on that album are so innovative and so talent filled that they could have smeared dog crap all over the speakers and then recorded it in a cardboard box layered with tin foil and it would STILL sound like gold.  Sometimes you have to just stop being a music snob and appreciate a masterpiece for what it is. 

I mean seriously, do you need me to make you a mix tape with all the Sabbath songs that will prove my point that they weren't just another "hard blues/rock band".  Because I will...and it will make you cry at your own stupidity.

And Mr. Lonesome, stop knocking Sir Lord Baltimore until you actually listen to them because they are one of the most underrated bands in rock history.  Led Zeppelin is fantastic and I love, love, love the first four records but they put out just as many crap records loaded with filler as they did classics.  I've personally had enough of the blind Zeppelin worship that dominates most music circles.  

The album that started metal...unless you are Mr. Mean, then you're a moron.

Mr. Lonesome:

Just a quick note on Zep: I do not worship them blindly. I worship them “Boogie With Stu” and all.

Back to Sabbath: I touched on power chords, be there are other elements of theory that characterize “Heavy Metal.” Specifically, the diminished fifth (used as the main riff in “Black Sabbath”) – and Chip nailed it, because the chord (or tri-tone) is known as The Devil’s Chord. So, yes. It totally came “out of Satan’s orifices.”

Also – hahaha dance music sucks.



Mr. On'ry:

I'm sorry, let me refrain.  I don't think YOU worship Zeppelin blindly.  But a lot of people do...and it's annoying.  That is all I have to say about that.



Mr. Mean:

Ouch, that last line hurt there. Because, you know, all I listen to is electronic music. Morons.

My feelings are hurt now. Well, not really.

OK, fine, valid points on Priest’s records before Stained Class, but since I pretty much hate subsubsubsubgenres anyway, whatever. They’re a rock band, they all are, so take the inverted cross out of your backside. When I think of metal, I think of Priest and Maiden first.

And dude, I like SBS. It’s a huge step creatively for them, I am well aware of that. But it is so thin. I hate the sound of that album. You are so gaga over Sabbath that, yes, it could be a dog crap in a cardboard box and you would still think it is the best thing ever made. You’re blind wrong though.

No I don’t need a Sabbath comp, moron. I have them all through Born Again. Unlike the other knobhead here who buys digital songs from albums, I buy full length albums. I have heard them all because I own them all. Make a comp for some dumb kid who thinks POD is metal.

THE BEATLES. Idiots.

What I want to know is why you have such a hatred for Deep Purple considering how much you “worship” the Sabbath and Zeppelin. It makes no sense. I want to beat you with Jon Lord’s keyboard and throw you into the North Sea.



Mr. On'ry:

You know I love you like a brother.  I can put up with your Morrissey worship, your blinding hatred of the Beatles, your love of crappy dance music...but you struck a nerve when you said Sabbath wasn't metal because to me (and this is just me being me here) it sounded like the dumbest thing any one of us has ever said on this blog...even dumber than 90% of what comes out of Lonesome's mouth.  Ha! 

And I'm not "Sabbath blind" so to speak.  I don't like the entire second half of Never Say Die.  I don't own anything past Mob Rules.  So there. 

Oh and the inverted cross stays wherever Satan planted it because it clearly makes me more metal than all of you.

Lastly, if this devolves into a Beatles conversation I swear to the Old Scratch himself I quit.

This cover depicts what's going to happen to Mean the next time On'ry sees him...

Mr. Lonesome:

Speaking of Deep Purple, I think it’s safe to say Gillan was a bad choice to sing for Sabbath.



Mr. Mean:

I like Born Again. The problem, once again, is bad production. WTF is your obsession with hating Gillan? The dude has pipes. You are such an idiot.

Like I said, Chip Satan, they are not what I deem as metal. I think of Maiden, Priest, Slayer, Venom, etc. as metal. Different times, different sounds. 



Mr. On'ry:

We shall agree to disagree.  And by "agree to disagree" what I meant was I am right and you are an idiot and the next time I see you I'm going to uncomfortably rub my Black Sabbath tattoo in your face.   



Mr. Lonesome:

I also believe On'ry is right.

And so am I.

And dude – I have nothing against Gillan, or Deep Purple. I just don’t think either are as great as you do. The world won’t stop spinning.

Mr. Mean:

You both are idiots.

*So tell us in the comments - Are Black Sabbath "metal"?  Are Led Zeppelin overrated?  Can we go one God forsaken post without mentioning the Beatles?  

 
 
  

The Unappreciated

Mr. Lonesome:

Ladies & Germs. I’ve been listening to The Cars over the last couple days. And it made me, almost instantly, think of this topic: what would a band do if it weren’t for this member? Basically, I’d like to discuss those musicians who get little-to-no fanfare, yet their respective bands just wouldn’t sound, or be, the same without them. Which leads us to:

The Cars: Elliot Easton – Lead Guitar. I’ve spoken about him in the past, and I’m speaking about him now. Elliot Easton rocks. I’m not sure this guy has ever not played the perfect note. Great examples of his solos are “Just What I Needed” and “Shake It Up” – both have that rock backbone but with pop melody. I actually liken him to the New Wave David Gilmour, in the sense that you can absolutely sing his solos. I also liken him to the antithesis of Andy Summers.  Both had their short sections to do something within the song. Where Summers would usually try some weird soundscape (i.e. the “solo’ section in Synchronicity II), Easton would maximize those quick eight bars with perfection. Band besides The Cars I wish he was in: Television. A Berklee-trained guitarist, I’d have loved to hear what he could have done with more space and improvisation.

Who’d like to have a go-‘round at this? Who you got?

Mr. Mean:

Since I am not a musician, I may not answer this correctly but I will take a stab with what I think about two drummers:

Dude, huge case in point is Rush. With John Rutsey, they were just another Led Zep ripoff. Don’t get me wrong…I like the first Rush album. But I LOVE the ones Neil Peart is on. His style is amazing, frantic, intricate. And, he gave Rush their identity as prog rockers with his lyrical content. I know you mentioned the musicians who get little or no fanfare, but as a band, Peart changed them so much and for the better. They are recognized as one of the all-time greats because he came aboard. A lesser known one – Les Binks in Judas Priest. He totally revolutionized metal drumming and was sacked because they wanted a less-technical drummer, so they brought in Dave Holland. Metal drummers owe Binks a huge debt.

Mr. Lonesome:

I think that’s a very valid response. I really dug Rutsey’s drumming too, especially on “Working Man.” But Peart really did redefine who Rush was. And yeah, they really wouldn’t be the same bad without him.

To be honest, I was sort of hoping you would go on a Jon Lord lovefest with this topic. When I hear Deep Purple, he’s the first one that comes to mind as far as helping define their “sound” – case in point is Rainbow. Same songwriter, but I would never mistake Rainbow for Deep Purple.

Mr. Mean:

Funny you mention Jon Lord. I am listening to The Stranglers right now and, like Lord, I think they too had an organist who defined their sound: Dave Greenfield. First wave punk was not known for having organ players, and the youngest member of the band was 25 when their debut record came out, which is pretty old by punk standards at the time. Greenfield was nearly 30 and brought the whole Ray Manzarek feel to the band. Further, I think their sound was defined by JJ Burnel’s bass as well. The songs are rough, the lyrical content perverse and dark, and Burnel added a very “in your face” sound. I can hear him playing and know immediately that it is him. Same goes for Peter Hook of Joy Division/New Order. He plays bass like an electric guitar – you would not even know it was a bass sometimes, but it totally defined their sound.

Mr. On'ry:

I’ve got three right off the top of my head:

Geezer Butler – Yes, Tony Iommi is one of the greatest guitar players of all time and his riffs invented metal.  But Black Sabbath would not be Black Sabbath without Geezer’s bass lines.  They really are the backbone of the beast.  Plus he wrote all the lyrics on the eight studio albums Ozzy sang on.  When you think about it Geezer really has always been the heart and soul of that band.

Robby Krieger – It’s hard for me to imagine the lone guitar player in one of the greatest rock bands of all time not getting his due but when you think of The Doors, who do you think of?  Morrison.  Then who?  Ray Manzarek is probably next.  Krieger is one of the most underrated guitar players in the history of modern music in my book.  He was so technically proficient it’s ridiculous to watch in the live setting (which I had the chance to do in Philly a long time ago).  But The Doors sound is predicated on Morrison’s crooning and the keyboards being way out in front, especially on a lot of their singles.  So much so that to me Krieger’s playing is lost on a lot of people.  (By the by, I could be arguing the same exact thing about John Densmore.)

Jorma Kaukonen – I feel pretty safe in saying that when you talk about underrated musicians that Jorma Kaukonen should be towards the top of everyone’s list.  His work with Jefferson Airplane was fantastic, but again when you think of the Airplane, who do you think of?  Grace Slick?  Marty Balin?  Paul Kantner?  Hell, even Spencer Dryden?  Most people don’t even know who Jorma was or that he was in the band.  But he really was the one who brought the fantastic Blues elements into the band, as proven in his later works with Hot Tuna.  Criminally underrated musician in my book. 

I’ll add more as I think of them but for now I’ll close with:  Rush sucks. 


Mr. Mean:

Two words: Hot Tuna. Brilliant call, man.


Mr. Lonesome:

I started this with one musician, and I sent with just Easton to sort of facilitate the conversation. But I also had three. Mr On’ry, you nailed one of them:

The Doors: Robbie Krieger – Guitar. I agree with everything you said. Krieger is ridiculously talented. Just listening to something like “Spanish Caravan” makes me wonder why more people don’t talk about his gifts. I can’t think of so many songs without his input: “The End” or “Love Me Two Times” or “Break on Through” or “People Are Strange” or “Insert Any Doors Song Here” – love me some RK.

Led Zeppelin: JPJ – everything. John Paul Jones is, to me, the most valuable person in Led Zeppelin. If for no other reason than his virtuostic versatility. He is always the last person mentioned when Zep comes up. And that’s fair enough, everyone in the band was genius. I mean who are we kidding: they are in fact the greatest rock band of all time! But back to JPJ: three defining moments for me: the bass line in “Dazed and Confused” – the key-intro in “No Quarter” – the GD recorders in “Stairway to Heaven” – the dude is a legend, but he will never be legend enough.

This guy was awesome.  Eff Mr. Mean.

 Mr. Mean:

Totally not on board with you guys as far as Kreiger. I immediately think Ray Manzarek. He is the reason I love The Doors so much. Not Morrison, not Krieger, not Densmore, not Lonnie Mack (look it up). The sound of The Doors is completely Manzarek and you both are idiots.

Mr. Lonesome:

I think the point on Krieger is that he is not immediately thought of when it comes to The Doors. Just like John Paul Jones, and Geezer Butler – there are two other bandmates that get the attention over him.  

Mr. On'ry:

Ding-dong, the topic is what musicians don’t get enough credit in what they added to the sound of the band…nice job proving our point about Krieger.  Is the only song you are thinking of right now “Light My Fire”?  Moron.  

Mr. Mean:

Fine. Not agreeing with you goons on Kreiger though. He was pretty run of the mill for a guitar player from what my ears are hearing. Get your lips off each other’s butts and carry on.

Mr. On'ry:

O.k. so I’m going to guess that I’m the only one of us that actually got to see him perform live, no?  You’d change your tune if you saw what I saw…or maybe not because you’re a stubborn little turd.

Mr. Lonesome:

There really is nothing run-of-the-mill about his guitar playing. He’s up there with people like Alex Lifeson and Lindsey Buckingham – really gifted guitarists who are overlooked because of the Brits.

Mr. On'ry:

No, Lindsey Buckingham is overlooked because he appeared on some truly horrible Fleetwood Mac albums. 

Mr. Lonesome:

Bad as they may be, I’ve never seen anyone play quite like he does. His use of fingers in lieu of a pick is insane when he solos. I’ve never seen anything quite like it. He also has incredible control of his thumb when playing the bass note while fingerpicking.

But I digress: Mr Mean is an idiot.

Mr. On'ry:

That didn’t help make Fleetwood Mac be any better…

Mr. Lonesome:

Oh, I’m not so sure that’s true. I think his songs were pretty strong, but his performances were where he shined. Youtube “I’m So Afraid” from their The Dance tour, watch/listen to him solo on that one. It’s pretty mesmerizing – like, chill-inducing. For me at least. And his solo performances from the same tour of “Big Love” and “Go Insane” (the latter coming from a solo and not Mac album), it’s obvious how ridiculously gifted he is.

Mr. On'ry:

I’m not denying he’s an amazing guitar player…I just effing hate Fleetwood Mac…

At least he had a nice 'fro. 

Mr. Lonesome:

Haha  you wont get any arguments from me, sir. I think Christine McVie may be the worst popular songwriter of all time, while “Don’t Stop” is maybe the most overrated song ever. I want to punch baby kangaroos (Joeys, if you will) anytime I hear it. Few songs induce such vitriol in me.

Mr. Mean:

I know you idiots hate The Smiths, but Johnny Marr is exceptional. Watch how he plays and listen, if you can get your heads out of each other’s butts long enough to do so and not wax poetic about how much you hate Morrissey.

Mr. Lonesome:

You are an idiot.

Not because of Marr. I think Marr is fantastic. But so do a lot of people, including most British guitarists from the 90s to now. You’re not opening any eyes, dude.

Though I’m super intrigued how you can pick up the nuances of Marr but not Krieger??

 Mr. On'ry:

You clearly don’t listen to a word that comes out of my mouth…or keyboard.  I know Johnny Marr is an exceptional guitar player.  I don’t hate The Smiths…I hate Morrissey.  He ruins every single Smiths song he has ever opened his fat, stupid mouth for. 

But Marr gets his due so what the hell does that have to do with the topic, expect open old wounds of Morrissey hate.  Screw you.  Two can play that game. – BEATLES!  METALLICA! 

There.  Suck it.

Mr. Lonesome:

/End Topic

Mr. Mean:

Morons. Now end it. Dumb bastards.

*Who are your favorite criminally underrated musicians?  

 

    

 

 

 

    

 

 

Age ain't nothin' but a number...unless it's 27

Mr. Lonesome:

The infamous 27 club. We all know about it. Take a look at the following names:

Robert Johnson

Brian Jones

Alan “Blind Owl” Wilson

Jimi Hendrix

Janis Joplin

Jim Morrison

Ron “Pigpen” McKernan

Pete Ham

Chris Bell

Kurt Cobain

Kristen Pfaff

Richey Edwards (presumed)

Amy Winehouse

The above scratches the surface of the phenomenon of those who died while at the age of 27. This topic isn’t necessarily to discuss the oddity of it; rather, play foreseer for a moment. Take a name or two. What do you think would have become of any of those above (or those not mentioned but still in the club). Where do you think Nirvana would have gone musically into the late 90s/2000s? How much of the legacy of Robert Johnson benefits from his mystique? Would he be revered similarly if he didn’t sell his soul at the crossroads, and lived to play into his 60s? Would the Stones have not sucked if Brian Jones remained?

Discuss.

Mr. Mean:

I’m starting this with a quick reply to your stupid Stones statement: Did the Stones suck on the albums Sticky Fingers, Exile On Main Street, or Goats Head Soup? No. Guess what, moron? Brian Jones died before those records came out. You are just pushing my buttons, I know, but I want our faithful following to see how uneducated you are with respect to the Stones and that you basically said those aforementioned albums “sucked”.

Mr. Lonesome:

Sorry, fella. But as a whole, post-Jones Stones sucked. PushPushPush.

Mr. Mean:

Some of the best songs they ever recorded were post-Jones. The entire Exile On Main Street album is one of rock’s finest moments. While I agree they should have broken up after Undercover (only because I think the title song kills), not everything they have done post-Brian Jones has been crap. Stupid, stupid, stupid. You have made us derail off the original request with your stupid quip about the Stones.

Onward.

I think Nirvana would have broken up. Success would have made Cobain upset and I can almost guarantee that In Utero would have been the last album. I also think the same thing about The Doors. Morrison was becoming too large of an ego to front a band. I can see him branching off and doing solo work or finding new blood altogether. What’s tragic is people like Chris Bell and Amy Winehouse could have, I think, further pushed the limits of rock and pop music had they stayed alive. Pete Ham is so underrated it’s not even funny. They were the Raspberries before the Raspberries, The Cars before The Cars, etc. Power pop began with Pete Ham/Badfinger as far as I am concerned. Tragic loss.

Mr. Lonesome:

SO, you are the only one allowed to use hyperbole in this group? Talk about dumb, you dummy. Additionally – I never said “everything they have done post-Brian Jones has been crap.” But god is it fun to see you see red. I’ve missed these blogs!

About Nirvana: they did record “You Know You’re Right” and I could see them going in that direction. My wonder is how long would Grohl have kept a backseat. I wonder if he would have left at some point to do his own thing, or if his own thing was facilitated by Cobain’s murder (looking at you, Courtney).

I agree on Morrison. I personally think if they stayed together, they would have to wheel Big Jim around, that he’d have become a latter-day Marlon Brando. He was so going in that direction.

Bell, Ham – agreed, again. But Bell was so depressed! It’s hard listening to I Am The Cosmos, because his poppy gifts were smothered in sadness. Ham had a great gift for melody, and it’s a bummer that bands like Badfinger and Big Star didn’t go for longer.

Amy Winehouse is someone I’ve gotten more into after her death. Killer singer. She’s someone I could see as being influential for years should she have lived, recording into her later years.

Mr. On'ry:

I'd argue that Pigpen's death did more to hurt the Dead than Brian Jones' death did to the Stones.  But that just tells you how much more I like Pigpen era Dead than anything that came after. 

I agree that Nirvana wouldn't have lasted regardless if Cobain was alive or not.  But not because Kurt Cobain 'didn't like stardom' but because I think the other two would have tired of his crap and moved on.  Clearly Dave Grohl would have been fine with it. 

Robert Johnson recorded less than 30 songs in his brief lifetime yet he's one of the most influential musicians of the 20th Century.  And no, it's not because of the Faustian legend surrounding his life (although I'm sure that adds to people nowadays discovering him).  He's so influential because his playing style, his lyrics, his voice, the whole package was unlike anything anyone had ever heard before.  I really would have liked to seen him grow within the genre and get to play on a regular basis with guys like Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf, Elmore James, Lightenin' Hopkins, etc.

I'm pretty convinced that if Hendrix saw the 70's that he would have been doing some of the craziest experimental stuff we've ever heard.  Would have been deemed totally inaccessible by the masses too, lowering his popularity but adding to his legend. 

Morrison faked his death and moved to Africa.  Piss off.

 

Pigpen - The real heart of the Dead

Mr. Mean:

Agreed on Pigpen. Nothing The Dead did after he died is worthy of a listen.

My point in Cobain not liking stardom is that he would have done something insane to alienate listeners altogether. He kind of tried that with In Utero because they brought in Steve Albini to record it, which always means more abrasive sounds and a harsher mood. I never really thought about Dave Grohl though. That makes perfect sense.

I don’t know much about the blues, so I am definitely going with Chipple’s summation of RJ. That said, I love, LOVE Howlin’ Wolf and RL Burnside.

Hendrix did see the 70s – for about 8 ½ months. I, too, wonder what he would have done in a studio with modern recording techniques. Your last line about Hendrix sounds like Neil Young signing to Geffen. It must have made David Geffen crazy. Neil signs to the label, records new wave albums, synthpop albums, rockabilly albums, and the sales plummet. He signed the contract to get out of the contract, or so it seems.

Oh, and Lonesome, Big Star did go longer – they were called Teenage Fanclub. I love the Fanclub, but man, they were the Scottish second coming of Chilton/Bell.

Mr. Lonesome:

I was thinking on this: how was Morrison not forty when he died? I know I quipped about the Brando-transformation, but really. That dude seriously aged like nothing else. And regarding him going to Africa, you’re confused with the guy that played him, Val Kilmer, who was over there doing Ghost and the Darkness   ;o)

Ok – regarding Jones, I know he was barely even doing anything with the Stones near the end. However, he was still a talented dude who died way too early.

Here’s one that might surprise you all: I’m not a fan of the Dead. Never have been. I don’t own one record, don’t have one song on my iPod. They are just meh.

I think the Hendrix bit is intriguing. I can see him pushing toward more eccentric music. He’s actually another one I never got into. I don’t dismiss his talent or influence. I just never really liked his songs. I wonder what him and Zappa would have sounded like if they recorded some records together in the 70.

Teenage Fanclub: I dig them. Not as much as Big Star. But then again, I don’t really care for Chilton solo. I think Big Star hit some sort of perfection with #1 Record/Radio City. Some beautiful, brilliant supernova that keeps on shining.

Mr. On'ry:

Yeah I know what year Hendrix died dumbass.  But he didn't see "the 70's" now did he.  Eight frinkin' months doesn't count.  And the other one is a dumbass too for never sitting now with Axis:Bold As Love or Band of Gypsys (my two favorite Hendrix albums).  Pure genius.  Period. 

I'm serious when I tell you that I believe Morrison faked his own death...

'I'm gonna take a bath.  Not feeling so good.' <wink, wink>

Mr. Mean:

The Bearded One has become more snarky. It’s fun. And yes, the other one is a moron regarding his “I don’t understand Hendrix” bit, but he brings up a good point and one I want to hear in heaven someday: Hendrix and Zappa making music together.

No way Morrison faked his own death. He looked ragged and haggard dude. He was going to die PERIOD. That said, LA Woman remains my favorite LP by a band who had nothing but great LPs.

Mr.On'ry:

He gained a little weight and grew a beard.  If that's your idea "ragged and haggard" and if the other one thinks that is a "Brando transformation" then I should have been dead like five years ago. 

Mr. Lonesome:

You and me both.

Except the beard part.

The Soundtrack of Our Lives

Mr. On'ry:

I want to talk movie soundtracks.  Now I’m not talking about musical scores, I’m talking about soundtracks that include songs performed by individual artists.  Are there any soundtracks you adore?  Maybe you like the soundtrack more than the movie itself? 

I went back and revisited the soundtrack to the film Honeysuckle Rose recently and realized how much more I like it than the movie itself. The movie, starring Willie Nelson, Amy Irving, and Dyan Cannon is o.k. but the soundtrack featuring a dozen or so songs from Willie, two tracks he does with Emmylou Harris and a handful of others from his movie and real life band is amazing.  My favorite versions of a couple of his songs come off this soundtrack and it gave birth to his most famous song – “On The Road Again”. 

Go.   

Mr. Lonesone:

There are a couple soundtracks that I absolutely adore:

1. The Big Chill - the oldies nostalgia is in prime form here, and there's not one bad song on the disc.

2. The Mothman Prophecies - so, this movie is one of my favorites. Something about the moodiness, the supernatural, the acting, the melancholy. There are a few movies that really enter my fibers, and this is one of them. The soundtrack only adds to the fascination. Exceptional tracks by Low and King Black Acid, very moody and dark and undulating and gorgeous.

Otherwise, I have to confess to not owning any others. Though there are some fantastic tunes on the Urban Cowboy soundtrack. Oh, and the song "Eastbound and Down" alone should make the Smokey and the Bandit soundtrack a top 5er!

Mr. Mean:

 

Some soundtracks are very important to me for myriad reasons. The Big Chill is so good. Not one bad song is extremely accurate.

       1. Thief – the entire score was done by Tangerine Dream and it remains my favorite TD album of all time. The movie is one of my all-time favorites as well…it was Michael Mann’s first movie before he did Miami Vice and the pre-Silence of the Lambs classic Manhunter. The score completely fits the movie and every time I hear it, I am brought back to certain scenes.

       2. Trainspotting – not only is it a great soundtrack, the songs are absolutely perfect to the film. Lou Reed’s “Perfect Day” during the overdose scene is completely insane. The song’s tone does not fit the scene at all but the tongue-in-cheek-ness about it makes the scene classic and the song essential. Everywhere on the soundtrack are absolute classics of the Britpop/glam/electronic genre…Underworld’s “Born Slippy NUXX” is one of the best electronic songs ever recorded.

        3. 24 Hour Party People – my love of Factory Records means this is an obvious choice, but the other non-Factory tracks used (Buzzcocks, Marshall Jefferson, 808 State) mean a lot to me as well because they were songs that made Manchester the best music city in the world for a decade. No matter the era, I am drawn to what it must have been like. This song/scene gives me chills: Happy Mondays “Hallelujah” playing during the scene when The Hac is closing up and Tony Wilson is just taking it all in. I feel like that sometimes. I feel the pressure to stop and the desire to keep going. I feel like no one understands it but tons of people get me. I get a lot of crap about my love of a label and club owner who could do absolutely nothing right from a business standpoint, but I really feel a kinship to Factory in many ways. I respect that they just wanted to make music and enjoy music.

4.       The Doom Generation, Nowhere, Spendor – all three are Gregg Araki films and all three soundtracks are aces. The movies are horrible. All of them. Splendor is kind of interesting because it has some classic UK indie/shoegaze tracks being remixed so most of these classics are heard in another light. Great stuff. 

Mr. Lonesome:

I absolutely agree with you, Mr Mean: Araki's films are just awful.

I am a dolt and forgot the following:

1. Lost Boys - an absolute stunner of a movie from youth, and a really good soundtrack. The Echo & the Bunnymen cover of "People Are Strange" doesnt break new ground, but it's still really good. My personal fave is the INXS/Jimmy Barnes track. Great rock 'n' roll there, very infectious tune. Plus, an oiled-muscly guy shirtless playing the sax. How does it get better than that?

Mr. Lonesome's favorite part of the movie...

Mr. On'ry:

You guys have thrown some good stuff out there.  Well done.  I would also like to submit:

Urban Cowboy – Mr. Lonesome mentioned it in passing.  Great, great campy movie.  I own it.  One of my personal favorites.  The soundtrack though is stellar.  Charlie Daniels Band (including one of the best songs they ever wrote – “Falling In Love For The Night”), Johnny Lee, Kenny Rogers, Mickey Gilley, hell even Anne Murray does the one song from her I actually liked.  There are a couple clunkers for sure but overall it’s solid. 

Gummo – The movie was bizarre as hell (which of course means I loved it) but the soundtrack was effing fantastic.  Eyehategod, Absu, Bathory, Sleep, Bethlehem, Mortician, Burzum, etc., etc.  It’s the best metal movie soundtrack ever in my opinion.   

Winter’s Bone – This is one of the greatest movies of the last decade in my opinion.  The soundtrack is equally as good.  The highlights include music that truly captures the essence of folk music from the Ozarks performed by artists from that part of the country.  It’s so authentic and sounds so good it hurts.   

Mr. Lonesome:

Right on with Winter's Bone. I've been really intrigued by that folk/country/regional type of music the past year or so. What about Crazy Heart? I have the movie but still haven't seen it yet. Does the soundtrack kill?

Also, I'd like to give a mention to Once. I think I like the songs so much because of the movie, and seeing them performed in it. I still prefer the Frames version of "Falling Slowly" but the scene in the movie in the music store, where Hansard introduces it to Irglova's character is one of my favorites in all of cinema.

Mr. Mean:

Awwww…Once. You made Queen Cardinal Hansard Stalker happy.

I love Urban Cowboy. Never had it on cd…I need to rectify that. I had the vinyl when I was a kid. I also had Urban Chipmunk, which is Alvin & company doing country. Ha!

Here’s one I completely forgot about:

Repo Man – The movie is a classic, and the soundtrack was my first introduction to Black Flag, Suicidal Tendencies, Circle Jerks, and Iggy Pop. Every song on it is amazing, even the bizarre Spanish version of “Secret Agent Man” (“Hombre Secreto”). I had the tape (San Andreas Records!?!?) and wore it out completely. I was so stoked when they finally issued it on cd in the early 1990s.

Soundtracks that I love that I completely overlooked on my initial response: Pretty In Pink, Vision Quest (my first movie soundtrack album), Cool World, Valley Girl, The Great Rock n Roll Swindle, The Harder They Come, The Decline Of Western Civilization, Rattle And Hum.

Mr. Lonesome:

Fuck Yeah on Vision Quest, dude! "The Lunatic Fringe" is one of my favorite songs, and you can never go wrong with a Madonna ballad.

Mr. Mean:

Fun fact: Vision Quest was the first cassette I had in a clear shell. It was around the time that came out that some labels switched to clear shells. I thought it was the coolest thing ever. That soundtrack had everything. A very underrated power pop gem by John Waite is on that album: “Change”. Such a great song.

Mr. Lonesome:

I'm with you on "Change" - great, great song.

Mr. Mean:

We’re agreeing too much. Stop it.

Mr. Lonesome:

er. "Change" would be a good song if Opeth covered it.

Mr. Mean:

And there we have it. Just stupid.

Mr. Lonesome:

Haha, Ok, ok. How about: "Change" would be a dreadful song if Moz covered it.

But, since it's John Waite, it's perfect. (sidenote, remember how big his hair was in Bad English?)

Mr. Mean:

Bad English was just not good. Horrible. Going from power pop to power ballads ain’t no way to get through life, son.

Mr. Lonesome:

 I'm telling you, it's the hair. It tempts you to do maddening things. Like it's from outer space. Their hair shouldn't ever be higher than their stiletto.

Mr. On'ry:

You guys really are agreeing way too much.  It’s hurting my brain. 

Great call on Repo Man. I’m also going to throw out another classic one I forgot – River’s Edge.  Crazy good movie, but any soundtrack that uses four Slayer songs (including an unreleased one) is classic in my book. 

Lonesome!  You haven’t seen Crazy Heart and it’s sitting at your house?!?!?!  Your “cinemaphile” card is hereby revoked.  The movie is amazing.  Get on it son!     

Mr. Lonesome:

I buy DVDs like you buy vinyl. I'm slowly catching up. Trust. I'll see it very soon.

But you didnt answer my question on the soundtrack. Despite that it won an Oscar for best song, how's the rest hold up?

Mr. On'ry:

Sorry, I was too busy chastising you.  Yes, the soundtrack is exceptional.   The Jeff Bridges songs hold up well outside the movie theater plus it has songs from Buck Owens, The Louvin Brothers, Waylon Jennings, Lightnin’ Hopkins, etc.  It’s excellent.

Mr. Lonesome:

Is it good or bad we haven't included any Cameron Crowe or Wes Anderson at this point?

Mr. On'ry:

 Both?  I always love the music Wes Anderson pulls into his movies but every soundtrack when not tied to the visual product of his film also sounds exactly the same to me.  So I have a hard time deciphering off the top of my head which song was in which movie.  

Mr. Lonesome:

 Very valid on Anderson. All I know for sure is "Needle In the Hay" was in The Royal Tenenbaums. Pretty sure.

I can't wait for Mr Mean to tell us how Singles is his favorite soundtrack, like, ever.

Mr. Mean:

 Singles had some good stuff on it. The Mudhoney and Paul Westerberg tracks, for instance. That said, I’d rather have shingles than watch or listen to Singles.

Mr. On'ry:

Singles the movie is one of the most overrated pieces of crap ever produced.

Mr. Lonesome:

 I give it props if for no other reason than the Lovemongers version of "Battle of Evermore" - Ann Wilson kills. Oh, and of course "Would?" which is one of my top 5 90s songs.

Mr. Mean:

“Would?” sucks. Alice In Chains sucks. End of thread. 

Mr. Lonesome:

 "Would?" is brilliant on so many levels. You actually suck. End of thread.